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Text
Lao Focus Group, story 7
R:
It long times ago, the one lady who has been passed away or have one boy? No, one boy,
not one boy. The girl. Because every day, don’t have father, mother, go get the—go look for
mushroom and bamboo to sell in the market for living every day, but she poor and then—and
that day, and . . . even to drink, you know, no bamboo, no mushroom, to take home to sell in the
market to sell somebody. She doesn’t have money, she’s really hungry. No rain. The river
dried up. No water to drink. And she saw . . .
Moderator: The foot, a footprint of an elephant.
R:
Footprint elephant, the king’s elephant come there. She stepped on that thing. She said,
“Oh, I found the water,” the water from the footprint. She pregnant. And when she had the
baby, the girl, she go to school every day, you know, . . . small like take the . . . She went to
school, the friend told her, you know, you . . . my daughter, you don’t have father who, you sleep
with your mom, but you're mom pregnant. I don’t see nobody. And she . . . come home, but
they say to you, you know, and said that they told me I’m the elephant daughter. You know
why, you know, elephant kid. You sleep with an elephant? She asked her mom. No, I went to
mountain every day to look for the bamboo and the mushroom, everything I can make for the
money for sell, you know, to sell and buy the food to eat every day and then the mother is sick
and almost died and [see if she] tell the truth for the daughter. You know, I dreamed of water. I
found the water in the footprint, the elephant footprint, that I’m pregnant. But I don’t know,
maybe that he pee in there, I drank that and I pregnant. I didn’t go to nobody . . . husband, only
that I drank that water. You know, and she pass away and the daughter . . . She went to go to
the mountain to look for the elephant. The elephant said, “Why you come here?” Answer, you
know, “My mom pass away, she said the big elephant in the mountain,” you know, I will ask
you, “Are you my father?” He said, “I don’t know. I didn’t sleep with your mom. Why you my
daughter?” . . . really beautiful and smell like perfume.
Moderator: Perfume.
R:
She go everywhere, you know, smell like perfume every day, you know, every day, . . . ,
you know? And then elephant said, “If you're my daughter,” she bend down . . .
R:
Oh, the trunk?
R:
Go down, when you my daughter, you can go up there. My trunk, that really is slippery.
When you're my daughter, you can stand on that.
R:
She said if she’s actually the elephant’s daughter, then she’ll be able to climb his trunk.
R:
. . . to really . . . It smelled good. And then the elephant say, “Oh, you're my daughter.
Accept you're my daughter.” And he build, you know, he make the house for her in the
mountain, because she doesn’t have the mom no more. So and then she grow up, the elephant to
go look for the food, get for her every day, you know, you don’t have a mom to take care of you,
I take care of you. And then as she I think turn to be 18 years old, she said, “I cannot live in the
mountain with my dad. I have to look for someone to take care of me,” and she cut her hair to
�put in a bamboo, that thing, to tie it very good and put the . . . in there to keep it wet for the
[river]. The . . . to open and said I look for my lover. You can find me in the mountain and on
top of the mountain there, I live there. I don’t have a mom. I have a dad. My dad is elephant.
She said, you know, can you accept me as a wife? You will be, you know—to be your wife, you
can go up to find me.” And the prince ride a horse to go up the mountain to see her and they
really fall in love, you know, they have two kids together. The elephant come back. She’s
hiding the husband in the trunk, what do they call it? The cave of the tree. Big tree, right, in the
mountain. Said, oh, maybe my dad doesn’t like the human, you know, he may kill my kid and
my husband, you know? And the father get mad. I smell that, no, human in here. Why you
don’t tell me the truth? And the father said, I want to go somewhere. He came back and bring
the food for daughter and . . . come back. He know that daughter lie to him, but he know, but
then he go away. The daughter, and she took her husband and . . . [in the river] go down to the
kingdom. The father come back to see them in the boat. Oh, my goodness, . . .
R:
Wait, so she ran away with the guy down the Mekong?
R:
With her husband and the kid.
R:
Because she’s scared her dad?
R:
She scared her dad will kill her husband and kid.
R:
Okay, yeah.
R:
And then she flowed down the river, the father came back. He really got mad and he
looked everywhere. He . . . the tree, everywhere that you leave and not tell me, you’re my
daughter, you know, you have to tell me the truth. And then—and got really loud, right, in the
mountain, he and the father.
R:
And then did they get away?
R:
Her father died.
R:
Oh.
R:
How?
R:
Because he get mad, he get broken heart when daughter leave him, you know, heart
attack. And then he . . . the daughter that when I die, to take this, you know, to put the . . .
Moderator: The ivory tusk.
R:
...
...
And put it . . .
�Moderator: So in Laos, what you do is you do . . .
R:
Put the bamboo together, because you don’t have a boat, right?
R:
Yeah, yeah.
Moderator: So you take the bamboo and then you weave it together into a boat. You bring the
tusk and put it into the bamboo.
R:
Float the Mekong River to somewhere.
R:
It’s like legend.
R:
And then he float that thing to the river and it go to the blood of a son, you know, father.
R:
Oh, son-in-law.
R:
Because the . . .
R:
Wait, it flowed to the son-in-law?
R:
No, the son-in-law, the . . .
Moderator: Best friend to the son-in-law.
R:
King.
R:
Oh.
Moderator: Remember, the prince is with his—the elephant’s daughter, but the offering, when I
die, you need to put my tusk as an offering to the river and when it flowed down, it flowed down
to the prince’s best friend.
R:
But then you know, the water go down this way, but they go up.
R:
Mm-hmm.
R:
That they go up to the king.
R:
Yeah.
R:
King’s city there and he said that when I went to hunting, every time I found him and
we’d go together. He met them. The end.
R:
The end?
Moderator: I’m sorry.
R:
The friend was really happy they found that.
�Moderator: The ivory tusk .
R:
He took it.
Moderator: The ivory trade is very popular in southeast Asia and so it’s worth a lot of money.
And so when you cut off—that’s what they use ivory keys for and other—ivory that’s been used
in pianos and stuff. So when you cut off the ivory tusk of an elephant, it doesn’t grow back. So
it was worth a lot and it was ironic that the ivory tusk of the prince’s father-in-law went to the
prince’s best friend.
R:
And then he just took it and the end?
R:
The end, because he was really happy that he found that. He didn’t know who it
belonged to.
R:
Oh, so good or bad? Oh, so it’s legend, like he still has it to this day?
...
Moderator: So you see in the kingdom, that the ivory tusks are in—it’s in front of the palace.
R:
Oh.
Moderator: So the palace, he enshrined it as this is a very powerful—like so the elephant’s like a
patriarch, a matriarch. They are the . . . So there’s a million elephants in Laos and so it’s the
kingdom of the elephants.
R:
Yes.
Moderator: And so those—the elephant, it was his kingdom. It was an honoring of his deceased
father.
R:
Father-in-law.
Moderator: Father-in-law, yes. Because he was a hunter and he went searching for stuff in the
woods and he found the ivory in the Mekong River.
R:
Oh, and it was the daughter?
R:
The daughter and son—the daughter-in-law and son, that he . . . they're really happy.
R:
Oh.
Moderator: He traveled north. The prince traveled north to find the daughter-in-law.
R:
Yeah.
R:
Mm-hmm.
�Moderator: And then when he brought—now that his father-in-law has passed away, he brought
the princess, his wife, back down to his kingdom in the south and that’s where, unbeknownst to
them, because the daughter had done this—what do you call that? Homage to the father.
R:
Like the Viking ship? Yeah.
Moderator: Yeah, right? And so she’s like, I’m doing this donation and it goes down and it
actually ends up in his palace, in his kingdom in the south.
R:
Oh, wow.
R:
Because his daughter went to bury him and everything, you know, the son-in-law too.
Because when he died, he told the daughter, said you come back and . . .
R:
So it was full circle. She buried him like a Viking burial down the river and then . . .
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a Lao focus group meeting where a story was shared for potential inclusion in the Southeast Asian Folktale book. The story shared is about an orphan girl who drank an elephant's pee and became pregnant.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
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UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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application/pdf; 5 p.
Language
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English
Type
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Text
Identifier
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Lao Focus Group, story 7.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/37070/archive/files/d808e442ef5bab4506d633abc627f746.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=Skjojuw%7EeaomrpJK8kKUxmuw6zzbTfrkVCNWpqkKfTFdJxh8jE1U%7E0MQAGRK8bmTtP3Yh%7EbE7VB16eSW7yZZVbhF7CzLsegAULyQWcYWuVE2DK8ql68lKgGp027biAvGxOzUZbV6Qmd6CwpF-kBTUe7yUfqv6k1H5%7Evfn2b4HB4trq6ZIP5X-unil2928iJkkd48L2kbaXCtWeWMY9uBdjA4kkly%7EsDFer9viNB7%7E9TZKxxs4WcD2F0KvVaxGitlB7SZ0mRCMhmk4k99UNWM9StSr2ZQzFogrV6ZW4wo7yg4SX4xSbyOmB0lOcqRNekbFE%7EUsxBZtls6sqRUxlp6mg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
e1d1948a8dd8671c78ff944ae2702dfa
PDF Text
Text
Lao Focus Group, story 6
Moderator: So it’s a true story?
...
Moderator: A long time ago.
...
Moderator: In the heritage city of . . .
...
Moderator: There’s four.
R:
Four kings.
Moderator: Four kings in the ancient . . .
...
R:
Four kings?
Moderator: So there’s four kingdoms in the olden times, . . . yeah. And . . . So those are the four
regions of Laos. Northern, middle . . .
R:
Four kings.
Moderator: So the four kingdoms of Laos.
...
Moderator: One of the kingdoms, his name is . . .
...
Moderator: He’s the king of . . .
...
Moderator: He was sleeping and he was dreaming.
...
Moderator: He was dreaming that he was crossing the river.
...
�Moderator: King what?
...
Moderator: What’s a . . . ?
R:
Poop.
Moderator: The king? Okay, why are people eating poop?
...
Moderator: Okay, so he had a dream that he was eating poop?
...
Moderator: Okay.
...
R:
Why is everything about poop?
Moderator: I don’t know.
R:
We’ll find out.
...
...
Moderator: Okay, so he’s straddling the [Meekon] River with one leg on each side of the
Meekon River.
...
Moderator: So as he’s eating the poop—I’m so glad we finished eating.
...
Moderator: He wakes up. This is a dream. He goes to the temple and talks to [Ajon] who is the
monk.
...
Moderator: Ajon’s name is . . .
...
Moderator: So he interprets the dream for them and says, oh, you're going to have good luck.
�...
Moderator: So now you need to travel north, up north.
...
R:
By boat.
Moderator: By boat.
...
R:
Canoe boat.
Moderator: By the canoe boat, so it’s by yourself, paddle up.
...
R:
The waterfall.
Moderator: Okay, so he approaches a waterfall.
...
Moderator: There’s one piece of gold, just like a lime, the size of a lime, a gold nugget.
...
Moderator: So as he was canoeing, he struck a golden nugget the size of a lime?
...
Moderator: He says if you come upon a golden nugget, don’t take it. So when you're at the top
of the waterfall?
R:
Yeah, the big waterfall.
...
Moderator: Now as he’s paddling, now the nugget is now a pound of gold nugget.
R:
Not a pound, coconut.
R:
Coconut.
R:
It’s a big one.
Moderator: It’s not a pound, it’s a coconut.
...
�R:
. . . eat the poop.
Moderator: Now that he’s paddling up to . . .
...
Moderator: . . . is another region, another city.
R:
Another town.
R:
Another town.
R:
Soon he gets to another town, he found another gold, big like 55 gallon—
Moderator: So like a 55 gallon of kerosene, the container?
R:
Yes.
Moderator: That’s how much gold he found. The monk says don’t take that, don’t take that.
Keep going.
...
Moderator: So now it’s in the evening, he’s getting hungry. So now he parks his canoe and he
comes on the river bank.
R:
And the name is [Parkan]. The town is [Bakan].
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: So the tributary to the Meekon is Parkan and NonBakan] which is close by.
...
Moderator: Which is near . . .
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: So now he’s starting to do the . . .
...
R:
He starts the fire cooking.
Moderator: So he’s getting ready to start the fire.
...
R:
He went to get a rock to make like a stove.
�Moderator: Okay, so he’s now . . .
R:
So he can put like three logs . . . to make a stove, okay?
Moderator: He wants to make a camp fire, right? So he’s collecting the wood for the kinder and
now he has three stones to put the stove on top.
...
Moderator: So he grabs the rock. Now the rock turns to gold. And he turns around and around
him is just gold everywhere. All the rocks are gold. So now he’s . . .
R:
Build a temple.
Moderator: So he builds a temple.
R:
The temple name is [Simkon]
Moderator: So Simkon. So in . . .
R:
That’s a real story.
[Crosstalk]
R:
Yeah, that’s a real story.
Moderator: There is several different temple names.
R:
One’s Simkon and one’s . . .
Moderator: [Simand]. The two temples names are . . .
...
Moderator: Simand and many of these temples . . .
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: Okay, we have to hear the story. We have to hear the story first, because if we have
four people talking, the person typing will hear four voices.
R:
Okay, after they build two temples, Simand and Simkon, then the gold is still left and
they put where? They put in the mountain called . . .
...
Moderator: The mountain. And so all of this gold, there are over 100 temples in the region and
so they used the gold to build these temples and they kept having leftover gold and so they then
�started moving out of the . . . city into the mountain to build another temple in the mountain with
the leftover gold.
...
R:
The temple now is about 800 years now.
Moderator: Eight hundred years old.
...
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: So the moral of the story is . . .
...
Moderator: So remember, the monk says whatever you get—like it started off with just the lime
nugget and he says, “Don’t take that. Wait until you get to your destination and that’s where
you’re going to find your gold and that’s where he found the masses of gold.
R:
I think it’s about you can take what is belongs to you, not belong to somebody. Don’t
take anything that belongs to somebody. What we learned from that.
Moderator: So take what is yours and not what are others?
R:
Yes.
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: So this story is written in the tombs of the scriptures of the monks. So in each of
these temples, you will hear this story.
...
Moderator: So that’s like, it started with just a dream and then he went on this journey to go up
north and he followed the monk’s advice by not taking things that weren't his.
R:
There’s a lot of people have dreams like that in my country.
Moderator: And so when people dream about eating poop, it’s actually a good luck dream?
R:
It’s lucky.
[Crosstalk]
R:
If you crave the poop—if you have a dream you crave the poop, you have good luck.
[Crosstalk]
�R:
Okay.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a Lao focus group meeting where a story is shared for potential inclusion in the Southeast Asian Folktale book. The story shared is about the four kingdoms of Laos.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf; 7 p.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lao Focus Group, story 6.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/37070/archive/files/c6926429b07bd550ab9aab2c169012ff.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=CM4KT39YepcrydKZ6bis2ny0Bn3jI26q3LDRPaiqi0dxMvaJ4D08a68Bh%7EVOg4alaurKkI4iUltxadKTJo9QQkoo62R%7EhMEERLgrcf6987u0CfgRHyZD%7EGcA8nl-4JoeW9PILji8RQUxiUe7DBYXExA8N0O6DKSsH-fx8rsFUBSrdYRL2e2mh%7EIB9yYbKk1QiFENs5Y%7EJY%7ERFpWqgsfoMDg1aqepwovJtZAQ5kr0g4BuBrfg3FsYlcIAf6IuObKcpzJsmoOY1zijg255N5DLQAje3ecaWvMu0jk-7ygBIQDYEiSzZEkXfC-Yb2qiVP-r5tOeOH1pm6VJgq-GGvrP7A__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
c3c571dccf26e8f0899da8b3516759e0
PDF Text
Text
Lao Focus Group, story 5
R:
. . . my dog and meat.
Moderator: Okay, so this is a story about a dog and . . .
R:
And meat.
Moderator: And the meat.
R:
Okay? I learned at school very young about this.
Moderator: So he learned this when he was younger.
R:
Yes.
Moderator: The dog, he traveled from his house to go to another . . . , then he found the meat.
Small meat.
R:
Somewhere between—somebody left on the road somewhere.
Moderator: Okay.
R:
Then he walked with the meat in the mouth, so when he passed the bridge, the water right
there, passed by the sun was very [shy] and he was looking in the water. He sees the meat, it’s
very big.
Moderator: The reflection of the meat?
R:
He said, oh, I’m going to get that big meat. His meat in there.
Moderator: Uh huh.
R:
And he dropped the small meat and jumped to the water to get the meat. There’s no meat
and he lost the small piece of meat. And he cannot swim. And the alligator come help him out
to cross the river to across the river, the dog pooped on the alligator’s head. That’s why you see
the poop head in there? That’s a dog poop in there. Yes. Then . . .
Moderator: But why? Why would he poop on his head?
R:
Because he needs to hunt. He got mad to the alligator.
Moderator: Why? What did the alligator do?
R:
He opened the mouth, that’s why he was afraid the alligator was going to eat him. He
pooped in the head.
�Moderator: Okay, so we missed that, right? So as he—what, the alligator came to take the dog
across. The dog was afraid of the alligator, because he opened his mouth.
R:
Uh huh.
Moderator: And so when—like the scared poopless. So he was so scared, he pooped.
R:
Came out from him.
Moderator: So he pooped on his head and then he jumped off the alligator’s head.
R:
Uh huh. What we learn from here? Okay? Okay.
Moderator: Okay.
R:
Okay, what we learn in here. Two things we have to learn in here. When people give
you—you found the meat, it belongs to you, not belongs to somebody or . . . to steal another
piece of meat from somebody.
Moderator: Mm-hmm, so be grateful for what you have and not what someone else has?
R:
Yeah, then . . .
R:
Poop on the alligator head.
R:
Then you learn from the dog right here? You learn from the dog, from here, that people
help you out, give you food or carry or something, you get accident. You show respect, say
thank you, not poop on their head, okay?
Moderator: So learn that lesson and say no pooping, but you have to be thankful.
R:
So the dog never learned his lesson.
R:
No. He’s still learning from that. You, say thank you, you know?
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: So that story, the title for the story is The Dog and His Meat? Right? So once upon
a time, there was a dog and he was in a village and he was walking to another village, right? So
along the way, when he walked to the other village, he saw a small piece of meat on the side of
the road. And so he got all excited, he was like, “Okay, I’m going to take this piece of meat with
me.” So as he is traveling, the meat has—so I’m thinking it’s the bone with a little meat on it,
right? So he grabs onto it and has it into his teeth. And as he was walking, he’s crossing over a
bridge and it was really bright and so he looked down and he saw his reflection in the water and
he noticed that in the reflection in the water, there was a bigger piece of meat. Because the light
shining on the reflection causes . . .
R:
He was greedy.
�Moderator: And so he was like, “I don’t want this one. I want that one down there.”
R:
Yes, exactly.
Moderator: So he opens his mouth, dives down, but he can’t swim. Along came the friendly
alligator in the . . . River, says, “I’ll help you across, so just get on top of my back.” But he’s
afraid. So he gets on his back, because he’s going to take him to the other side of the river, but he
gets afraid of the—the dog becomes afraid of the alligator, because the alligator kept opening up
his mouth and so he was scared poopless, so he pooped onto the alligators head and jumped off
and ran away. The end. No meat?
R:
No meat.
R:
No nothing.
Moderator: And no nothing. The moral of the story is be thankful.
R:
So that’s the end of the greedy dog.
Moderator: Be thankful for what you have.
R:
Mm-hmm.
R:
And be appreciative of people who help you and so don’t poop on them, but say thank
you instead.
R:
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
R:
We have the exact same Korean version, but there was no alligator. But the dog barked
at the dog in the water to take the bigger piece and then lost his. That was the end. So if you are
greedy, then you're going to lose.
Moderator: What you have.
R:
Yeah, what you have.
R:
Yes.
Moderator: Wow, that’s a nice story. I like that one. Don’t be greedy. Don’t be greedy and
don’t be poopy.
R:
That’s it.
R:
That’s it, okay.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a Lao focus group meeting where a story was shared for potential inclusion in the Southeast Asian Folktale book. The story shared is about a dog and meat.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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application/pdf; 3 p.
Language
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English
Type
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Text
Identifier
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Lao Focus Group, story 5.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
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Text
Lao Focus Group, story 4
Moderator: And so they were able to take a nap.
R:
They were too tired.
[Crosstalk]
...
Moderator: So what was outside?
R:
A gold. I guess while they were sleeping . . .
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: The rice field.
R:
Miracles.
Moderator: Miracle of the golden wheat or the rice crop.
...
Moderator: So the Buddha blessed them with a rich crop and so it’s golden and . . .
...
Moderator: I’ve never seen this before, this must be a miracle.
...
R:
But when they check out to see the gold, the whole field is full of gold and so they said,
oh, it cannot be mined, it is too much gold. So went to announce to the government, saying,
“Oh, this does not belong to me. You have to take it away, because it is not mine.”
Moderator: So they came and took the gold and piled it up. So there’s 12 stories of gold.
R:
Twelve foot. Foot.
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: To 12 feet full of gold.
...
Moderator: Oh, twelve by eight.
...
�Moderator: So when they came to collect it, the gold turned to rocks, because it wasn’t meant for
them and the people who came to collect it. It was meant for the farmer and his wife. And so if
they touched it, it was gold, but if someone else touched it, it turned to rock.
...
So the person who came to touch it said, “I don’t think it’s ours, because when we touched it, it
turned to stone. You touch it, see if it turns back to gold.”
...
So they—when they touched it, the couple, it turned back to gold again.
R:
Could they spend it?
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: So now what do we do? No one else can touch this. So that means that we’re the
only sole owner, because when we touch it, it’s gold, when anyone else touches it, it’s stone.
...
R:
Farmer, farmer.
...
R:
So she forgot the name of it. She said, I don’t know if it was the city farmer or the rice
farmer.
R:
The farmer, farmer.
[Crosstalk]
Moderator: The gold farmer. You can call that story the gold farmer.
R:
Yeah.
R:
The gold farmer.
...
Moderator: Can somebody translate?
Translator: Sure. The moral—I guess she’s saying the moral is that the truth from the heart and
the truth of being fair as far as whatever aspect of life, whether it be sales, whether it be
creating—just thinking about wealth, saving and all that, especially business partners, especially
husband and wife, friends, you know, be truthful. Be fair. Be honest.
R:
And they were truthful people.
�Translator: Yes, yes.
Moderator: So that means you have to be faithful to your partners.
R:
Yes.
Moderator: And true to your partners.
R:
Yes.
Moderator: So it’s just being true to yourself and to your relations?
Translator: So be truthful to what you do and what you say and everything will turn out the
way—yeah.
R:
Be truthful and honest in your relationships.
Translator: Yeah.
[Crosstalk]
Translator: Not just relationships, but what you do and what you say, you know.
Moderator: Just your essence.
R:
Power of giving, it’s called.
R:
Yes.
R:
In everything you do.
Moderator: Yeah. Don’t focus on material things too much, basically.
R:
Don’t be materialistic.
Moderator: Or it’ll just be stone.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a Lao focus group meeting where a story was shared for potential inclusion in the Southeast Asian Folktale book. The story is about a farmer and his wife waking from their nap to find that Buddha blessed their rice field with gold.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf; 3 p.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lao Focus Group, story 4.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
-
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PDF Text
Text
Lao Focus Group, story 3
Moderator: There are similar moral stories in the Buddhist scriptures and so that’s a similar one
where they use it as part of temple. So when they have the young students who come in that do
the Buddhist scriptures based on his life and those stories and then they do Lao stories that are
much more contextualized to the Lao villagers, depending on where they're at.
...
Moderator: So there’s a husband and wife.
...
Translator: His wife making a full, deliver a lunch for husband.
...
Translator: Every day.
Moderator: So the wife—there’s two couple, the husband and wife. The wife prepares food for a
lunch for her husband every day and delivers it every day.
...
Moderator: And so the husband is hungry, because he doesn’t have any food with him.
...
Moderator: So she was giving ohms to the temple first, before she was able to bring the food to
her husband.
...
Moderator: So his stomach was growling and he’s really hungry and it’s growling and he’s
rubbing his tummy and saying, “I’m really hungry. I’m famished.”
...
Moderator: And he’s like, I wonder where my wife is. Why is she a little bit late?
...
Moderator: And so when she came with the food, he couldn’t quite eat, because he’d lost his
appetite.
...
Moderator: About his appetite. She’s like, I’m sorry I’m late, because I had to go give ohms to
the monks first.
�...
Moderator: And then I had to come back home and steam some more rice for you to come give it
to you.
...
Moderator: The husband says, I’m grateful that you were able to gives ohms first.
...
Moderator: So part of the blessing is to get—the monk blesses the water that is sort of like the
christening version of the Christians and so for him, he took the Christian water and rubbed it all
over himself and then he wasn’t as hungry. Did I get that right?
R:
Yeah.
R:
No.
...
R:
She said that her husband—the monk—prior to that, the monk also went to the husband
to get food to . . . and then the husband doesn’t have any food to offer. The husband offered the
water from the well or to the monk and then the monk took that water to wash himself.
Moderator: Okay. Did you guys get that? So in the Lao culture, the monks come in the morning
with their bowl of arms to get—so this is their acts of compassion where people will make food
and prepare food and so this is their—the villagers’ chance to contribute to their next life. So
when he came around to the husband, he didn’t have any food, but he had fresh well water and
so the monk was able to take the water and cleanse himself. He didn’t have food to offer, but he
had water to offer. And so that was his ohms giving prior to his wife giving food to the monk.
...
Moderator: So they were both happy and grateful that they were able to contribute. So the
husband was able to contribute the water and be able to pray to Buddha and thank him.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a Lao focus group meeting where a story was shared for potiential inclusion in the Southeast Asian Folktale book. The story shared was wife delivering lunch late her husband because she gave alms to the monks first.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf; 2 p.
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lao Focus Group, story 3.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
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PDF Text
Text
Lao Focus Group, story 2
R:
She was—there’s a story about the mother and the son that he’s a farmer and the mother
is the one that’s supposed to bring the lunch to the son and one day the mother that bring the rice,
the lunch to the son, is late and he was too hungry and he was frustrated and he ended up hitting
his mother and kill her. So I mean, this story is teaching about the anger of youth that in that
moment, when you’re out of control, when you cannot hold yourself, and then you end up doing
something really bad and you're going to regret it in life.
R:
Do you remember how it was told?
R:
Um.
R:
He was eating the rice.
R:
Yeah.
R:
He didn’t finish it. Everything to fill up and he—too late to say sorry. He already kill his
mom.
R:
It escalated so quickly.
R:
Yes.
R:
And he build a statue in the temple for the mom—I kill my mom. He go pray that every
time he go to temple, my mom.
R:
This story, I can—I remember quite a bit, okay? So maybe I can . . .
R:
Yeah, tell the story from the beginning?
R:
I went to a temple, probably like seven or eight years old and I always hear this story all
the time. We tend to—when we’re young, we don’t know how to conserve. Not just the temple
part, but the food that we consume. A lot of times we’re wasteful. So the monk and the elder—
our father, mother always tell us, you know, don’t be wasteful, you know how . . . or whatever.
Moderator: Like one ball of rice.
R:
Yes. So the story begin when the mother, who’s trying to get the food ready for the son
and it’s the end of the harvest, okay, where the food is still being harvest, so we don’t have that
much. So the mother only have one handful, not even handful, probably . . .
Moderator: One bite.
R:
Yeah, one bite, and so he bring over and the mother already scared that it’s going to be
late, okay? Because it’s around noontime, because the son didn’t get to eat breakfast or anything
like that. Breakfast in our country is the big, big thing, you know? And the son skipped
breakfast, so he’s hungry after a long afternoon, hard work, you know, in the farm. Plowing and
all that. So he’s waiting for his mom. Finally, his mom show up. He said, “Why’d it take you
�so long?” He’s scolding his mom, you know, cursing and stuff like that, you know, right away,
what do we learn? You know, we learn that he’s disrespectful. We learn that he’s very
impatient. We learn that he’s really mean, okay? And basically the elder, from what I learned
from, and the monk that taught me, is that, you know, you're supposed to be the opposite.
So the summary of the story is that he—instead of focus on what she brought him and the
lunch, you know, only have salt and one bite. She didn’t even get to eat. She saved that bite,
you know, to give him. And when soon she brought that over and she was trying to explain she
didn’t—I mean, he didn’t want to hear what she had to say, so it just—you know, hit her, club
her and she died. After she died, now he’s still hungry. He look at the bite he’s about to eat, but
he could not eat. He realized that, you know, his impatience got the best of him and then, you
know, and killed his own mom and he wanted to say sorry, but he couldn’t. He wanted to eat,
but he couldn’t. You know, so the moral of the story is that it’s not what you want, it’s what you
have and make the best of it, I guess. Okay, like that. It’s really—the elder probably can tell
better than what I can.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a Lao focus group meeting where a story was shared for potiential inclusion in the Southeast Asian Folktale book. The story shared was about a son that got angry at his mother for bringing the lunch late and he ended up killing her.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf; 2 p.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lao Focus Group, story 2.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
-
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PDF Text
Text
Lao Focus Group, story 1
R:
Well, the story that you mentioned earlier, that’s one of them that I grew up with.
Another one is I believe what do you call the ten . . .
Moderator: Is it the—for the temple?
R:
No, no, no. There was a king challenging all the, you know.
R:
Other kingdoms?
R:
Yeah, the kingdoms to who can have the wealth that equals to ten mount. So they can
marry the daughter—I mean, the princess. That always been stuck in my head and of course,
some other folklores or ghost stories that always scared me, but it’s also funny too.
Moderator: Okay.
R:
But that particular one.
Moderator: So what’s the name of that one?
R:
I’m not sure. This is an old one, so I would have to ask the older generation. . . . Yes.
The king challenging all the warriors and whatnot, you know, he’s dying and he’s in need of—I
mean, the kingdom in need of another successor.
Moderator: Okay.
R:
And so the king put a flyer or whatever, announced, saying that whoever come up here,
ten mount of gold.
Moderator: Mm-hmm, and is it just a mount like a mountain?
R:
Yeah, mountain, . . .
Moderator: You know how the plane of jars where they have these big sort of vats?
R:
Well, in our country, we have—what do you call, the termites mound? It’s that big. So
each one—there was ten of them in there, so nobody has it. So [Simeon] had an idea and he’d
come up with—he went to get gold coins and place on the mound. So in the end, I mean, I’m
cutting story short, but I’m pretty sure the story that—I’m spoiling the story here—the older
generation can tell better. But basically, that’s what stuck in my head.
Moderator: Mm-hmm.
R:
So Simeon, long story short here, he placed all the gold into the ten mounds and then he
solved the riddle of what the king placed. So the moral of the story is, you know, he’s very
creative in his idea and he won the riddles. He won the challenge.
Moderator: Okay.
�R:
So it’s encourage, envision, motivation type of story for me and I always think of that
every time I’m coming to a challenge of something. I always place that story in saying, you
know, it’s not how you look at the problem. I mean, it’s not—the size of the problem, that’s
what I’m trying to say. It’s how you look at it and how you handle the problem. That’s always
been my . . .
Moderator: You can just say it in Lao and then we’ll get it translated.
R:
Okay, okay, yeah. Something like that.
R:
Mm-hmm.
Moderator: So this is one of the Simeon folktales that he grew up with and that he—is one
of his favorites.
Moderator: And so it’s another trickster story. How many Simeon folktales or trickster
stories are there?
R:
Oh, hundreds. Hundreds.
Moderator: So depending on which story you remember of you hear?
R:
Yeah.
Moderator: So there’s a collection of them?
R:
Yeah.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a Lao focus group meeting where a story was shared for potential inclusion in the Southeast Asian Folktale book. The story shared was about a king challenging all warriors and whatnot for a future successor to marry the princess.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
Rights
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UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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application/pdf; 2 p.
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
Lao Focus Group, story 1.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
-
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Text
Beatrice Lao
Beatrice:
Oh I discovered it as an adult. It was given to me my first year in law school
by a friend and it's The Little Prince. I have read it probably at least 30 times and I have
read it with my nieces and nephews and IStory 1
Speaker 1:
I haven't read it.
Beatrice:
-give it to everybody every kid who I come across as a gift.
Speaker 1:
That's the gist.
Speaker 1:
Why do you like The Little Prince?
Beatrice:
I like The Little Prince I think at the time it inspired me when I went to law
school 'cause I felt really out of place and the story of The Little Prince is a little prince who
lived in a tiny little planet who tended to a rose and he decided one day to explore the
universe outside of his planet and he was very scared and he met all kinds of people met a
king, he met a drunkard, he met a geographer and he in the end even though he went out to
discover what he thought was a very strange, intimidating world, he learned he was very
enriched by it and he still wanted to go back to his planet to be with his rose. There's more
to it than that but-
Beatrice:
-that story that story stuck with me and it's something that I share with other
people especially young people.
Speaker 1:
That's great 'cause as you were talking 'cause my mom would say that's what
Buddha was, he was a prince who went out to explore the world.
Beatrice:
Oh that's right yes, [inaudible 00:07:53] yeah, yeah that's right yeah. I hadn't
thought of that yeah.
Speaker 1:
It's similar right to all of those trials and tribulations but you go back to
yourself yeah so I never I'm going to have to read that.
Beatrice:
Oh yeah 'cause there's so many stories out there but that one definitely-
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a meeting with a Lao community member from the Lowell area where one Lao story was shared for potential inclusion in the Southeast Asian folktales book. The story was about a prince who lived in a tiny planet but one day he went out to explore the universe. The prince met all kinds of people and was enriched with information.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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application/pdf; 1 p.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CWilinsky_Lao 3 isolated from individual transcripts.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
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PDF Text
Text
Chanthone Seng interview
Jun: My father and mother told me stories about ... A person who was a tiger, they took
the skin of the tiger and wore it as a ... Taking the skin of the tiger and put it on the shirts.
Prints of the tiger on the shirt. So they said long time ago that the people who put the pieces
of the skin of the tiger onto their shirts end up becoming a tiger.
Story 1
Jun:
The one that is about the young lady that smells like a flower.
Story 2
Jun:
No. The hair that smells nice. So she was born with beautiful-smelling hair.
Interviewer: Why do you like that story?
Jun: Because it's a story about the mother that was ... She was an orphan. Her mother and
father died, and she had to take care of herself. And she has one child. So that's what
happened.
Jun: She had to go and forage for food in the forest. So she searched for mushrooms and
bamboos and plants so that she could eat.
Interviewer: Because and why do you like that story?
Jun: It helps people understand to be patient and persevere ... like a survivor. Resilient.
So that they can learn how to find food and survive in the jungle.
Jun: There's a story about the family that had seven kids. The mother and father are poor
and they don't have money. So they let the kids go and let them live in the forest. So now
they turned into gorillas in the jungle and they're not human. So they finally were able to
farm and get some food so that they went back to get their kids. But the kids have all grown
hairy. They no longer know how to speak like humans. So the mom and dad cried because
they've lost their children. So they would get food and throw it at the bottom of the tree
where their children, who are now monkeys, live. And that's the end of the story.
Story 3
Jun: The second story I would tell you is the story about the girl who was born with the
pretty-smelling hair. The mom and dad birthed a beautiful daughter that had long, flowing
hair that smelled very beautiful. They don't have much money so they collected charcoal to
sell. They would sell the charcoal to buy food and water, or nourishment for their one
daughter.
Story 4
Jun: The daughter went to school, but one day the mother and father died, and then she
was left alone by herself to grow up alone. So she did what her parents did. She went and
foraged in the forest and found food to eat there and found charcoal to sell to make a living.
�Jun: But one day she had a child, and then the villagers would ask, "This is strange, how
can a woman have a child without the father? Where is the father?" The mother had a
secret. The child would ask, "Where's my father?" as she was growing up. As she grew up,
the mother kept the secret of her father's heritage until she was growing old and almost
about to die.
Jun: Her daughter was 18 years old when she told him. So she started this story. So she's
dying and so she tells the daughter that, "When I was younger I went to the forest and I
drank from this water fountain that was a magical water fountain." The water was a hot
spring that came from the rock." So when she drank from the springs that came from the
rock, she became pregnant with the daughter. When she was there by herself, there was no
human. "There was just an elephant. It was the king of the wild elephants. So if you wanna
know your father, go into the forest where there is the water from the rock, and you will
find your father."
Jun: She said that the father was in the mountains by the rock side. So she went there
and she saw this elephant who was sleeping there. So she asked him, "Are you my father?"
The elephant replied, "When were you my child? When did I beget you?" She told the story
about what her dying mother said, saying that she had come here and that when she drank
the water she saw no one. So she said, "Yes, you're right. I did pee on that rock and your
mother drank my pee."
Interviewer: Oh, God.
Jun: So the elephant is gonna test her to see if he's the real daughter. "So the test to see
whether you're my child or not," said the king elephant, "is I need for you to walk out into
that ledge and cross between these two rocks. Between the two rocks is a cliff that falls. A
true daughter of mine can walk over the rocks without falling over. But if you're not my
daughter, you'll fall over to your death."
Jun: So she was able to walk over to the other side of the rock cliff. So that validated that
yes, he was her father. Then she just stayed and lived with her father for the rest of her
years.
Interviewer: So why do you want that story known?
Jun: This is a story about the heritage and to know where you're coming from. So you
never forget your father. Never forget who your father is. It's like your DNA. The story of
your heritage, where you come from, from your father and your mother. So the father took
care of her. So this is the story to tell children to remember who their parents are and who
takes care of them.
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a meeting with Lowell area Lao community members where Lao stories were shared. A total of four stories were shared for potential inclusion in the Southeast Asian folktales book. The first story shared was about a human who took a tiger's skin and wore it. The second story was about a young girl whose hair smelled like flowers. The third story was poor family with seven children, and left the children in the forest. The fourth story was about an orphan girl who got pregnant from magic water in the forest.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf; 2 p.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CWilinsky_Lao 2 isolated from individual transcripts.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
-
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671b60dbcff45cc47a48ba58f4fe3e62
PDF Text
Text
Chanthy & Kaen
Speaker 2:
There's one story about Nang La and Nang Lun which are the two names,
they were brothers.
Story 1
Speaker 2:
Speaker 2:
What is your favorite story?
There was one story, is my favorite. It's about these siblings.
Speaker 2:
Okay. So there's one story about ... So it's a story about two girls. They make
silk skirts that they sell to people. So they sell the silk to help their families. So that's the
only one I remember from when I was younger.
Speaker 2:
So that's the story that I remember when I was seven or eight years old.
Don't remember the details but that's the story about the two sisters that helped their
family.
Speaker 2:
Story 2
Let's see. Okay. There once was a dog. [Foreign language 00:58:24].
Speaker 2:
Okay. See, this is the one. Here, let me see, [foreign language 01:07:59]. Okay.
[Foreign language 01:08:03].
Speaker 1:
[Foreign language 01:08:06].
Speaker 2:
Is the dog in the river, [foreign language 01:08:13]. So that's his shadow,
[foreign language 01:08:18]. So [Foreign language 01:08:23].
Speaker 1:
Speaker 2:
01:08:33].
[Foreign language 01:08:24].
[Foreign language 01:08:28]. And that's it, the end. [Foreign language
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
The transcript of a meeting to share Lao stories, [2018]
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of a meeting with Lowell area Lao community members where Lao stories were shared. A total of two stories were shared for potential inclusion in the Southeast Asian folktales book. The first story shared was about two siblings making silk shirts to sell to support their family. The second story was about a dog. Only the English is transcibed and the Lao is not transcibed in the transcipt.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
[2018]
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf; 1 p.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
CWilinsky_Lao 1 isolated from individual transcripts.pdf
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Documents
Laotians
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/37070/archive/files/4199047d5ccbe866ad81abba450cd027.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=MAuGOLsRKLxJdRkoa52UiDeTEgCLcQUKJBGTuIElbe2m9wJRPwYvY9Po2x9Rrkhhn46Nvhq3UU5NxceVnhJrk-rbLEqI4QPpuCcfvfN0s1LNO%7EFI%7E4NFg5W79GH-HnldEC1WVi5b3GuP%7Egz9WidYGNup9bcWuSyMAjcmtrsveWYAS91A3O7TvKRtcJXl7NpdopbuNcBawgXGTUzY6FwtiLP%7Esbd6eoDjaQWxw18nTV9kB5LqNa71tR6unJR8iT1MvB%7EGPDOitpGF2nQrJ8mt3fGrozkMf-nJFlRLIHSkIYhh4DIP2qEkfv-udQlBo5yWBalV0DjmZgT-kE4OIWyJgA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
137e8b965c432ce8082756d7066557c0
PDF Text
Text
Long Long
Time Ago
in Southeast
Asia
TALES FROM BURMA,
CAMBODIA, LAOS,
.
AND VIETNAM
��A
Long Long
Time Ago
in Southeast
Asia
TALES FROM
BURMA, CAMBODIA,
LAOS, AND VIETNAM
�Copyright © 2018 by MinJeong Kim, Allyssa McCabe, Phitsamay Uy.
All rights reserved.
�Table of Contents
Overview of Project ............ . ........... . ........... 5
Lowell, Massachusetts ... . .. . ... . ..... .. ........... . ... . 5
Burma . . .... . .. . ..................................... 7
"The White Elephant" . . . ....... . . . .... . ........... . ..... 8
Cambodia . .... ... ... .. .. ............................ 24
"Don't Open Your Mouth" .... . ........... . .... . ...... . . 25
"Why the Rabbit Doesn't Drink from the Pond" . .. .......... 34
Laos .... . . .. . .. . . .. . ............... . .. . ............ 47
"The Greedy Dog and the Meat" ...... .. .. .. .. . .. . . . .. . .. .48
Viet Nam . ...... . ... . . . ........................... . . 62
"The Golden Starfruit Tree" ...................... . . . . . .. 63
"A Big Pot of Gold" ... . .. . .. . . . .......... . . . .......... 74
Biographies ........................ ... ... . ....... . . . .. 90
�4
�Overview of Project
We are Minjeong Kim, Allyssa McCabe, and Phitsamay Uy, professors
at the University of Massachusetts Lowell, who have long had independent
interests in collecting folktales from diverse cultures. We all teach at the
University of Massachusetts in Lowell, Massachusetts, which is home to
numerous immigrant and refugee communities, including many individuals
from Cambodia, Viet Nam, Burma, and Laos. We noted the lack of reading
materials representative of those cultures and decided to rectify that. We
received a Creative Economy Grant from the University of Massachusetts
President's office to collaborate with the Southeast Asian community-based
organizations in Lowell (Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association, Saydanar, Thong Phamduy & the Vietnamese Language School, Wat Buddhabhavana) to collect folktales from those four community groups. Professional
illustrators and art students from the university illustrated the folktales. This
book is the result of our collective efforts. We would like to express deep
appreciation to all the community members, organization staff, students,
and the President's Office for their support of this project.
Lowell, Massachusetts
Lowell, Massachusetts is a mid-sized city with a population of a little
over 100,000. The Merrimack River joins the Concord River in the city,
and there are many waterfalls, rapids, dams, and canals throughout which
made it desirable for the location of industries dependent on water power as
an energy source. Lowell was founded in the 1820s and named for Francis
Cabot Lowell, a key figure in the Industrial Revolution who secretly studied
textile technology in Great Britain and brought that technology to what became Lowell. In fact, Lowell is known as the cradle of the American Industrial Revolution. In only thirty years, Lowell became the biggest industrial
center of the United States, with a particular focus on textile manufacturing.
5
�Due to its many industries, immigrants to America were attracted by
the possibility of work, which has resulted in a very rich cultural mix in
Lowell. The city has seen many waves of immigrants, successively: Irish
people in the 1840s and 1850s were followed by French Canadians in
the 1860s and 1870s, and then by Greek, Polish, Portuguese, and Jewish
people. In more recent times, immigrants from Southeast Asia have settled
in Lowell, including people from Burma (now known as Myanmar),
Cambodia, Laos, and Viet Nam-the countries whose tales fill this book.
The city is host to many immigrants from South America, including Brazil,
Colombia, and the Dominican Republic. Increasingly the city has attracted
immigrants from various parts of Africa.
Lowell's history as a city of immigrants and refugees has resulted in
a number of community-based organizations that promote celebrations
of cultural arts and traditions from various countries of origin. There are
museum exhibits, statues, and other memorials dedicated to the various
immigrants to Lowell throughout the city. Organizations that provide
direct social services to the Southeast Asian communities include Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association, Lao Family Mutual Association, and
SayDaNar Community Development Center. Faith-based institutions also
play a strong role in Lowell's Southeast Asian communities. For example,
there are four different Buddhist temples in Lowell (one Vietnamese: Chua
Tuong Van Lowell, two Cambodian: Lowell Wat Khmer and The Glory
Buddhist Temple, and one Lao: Watlao Mixayarama of New England).
Saint Patrick Catholic Church provides worship every weekend in five languages: Spanish, Vietnamese, Burmese, Cambodian, and English. Lowell
is home to the second largest population of Cambodian Americans in the
U.S. and is nationally known for its Southeast Asian Water Festival. The
Angkor Dance Troupe is renowned for perfonning traditional Cambodian
arts. Every year, Lowell celebrates the Vietnamese Lunar New Year or Tet
on January/early February and Cambodian, Lao, and Thai New Year on
April 13 - 15th.
6
�ClflNA
Burma
Burma, currently known as Myanmar, is predominantly a
Buddhist country, rich in natural resources. It is considered
one of the most resource rich countries in Asia. Bunn a is
the largest country in Southeast Asia with a total land area
of 676,577 square kilometers. The population is estimated
to be 53 million. There are 135 national groups living in
the country. Geographically, it is located between the two
most populous nations in the world--China and India.
Other neighboring countries are Thailand on the southeast,
Laos on the east, and Bangladesh on the west.
7
�The White Elephant
oocS§1lGCY.:Y5
A folktale from Burma
§+'1?~='{)~(98
A long, long time ago, there was a lonely man in a village in
Burma. He had no parents, no family , no relatives. He was so poor
he had nothing to eat. He had to find a job. So he went to work for
the king as a servant. He had to work very hard as a servant. He had
to do everything the king asked him to do . He never refused. He
never had a chance to refuse . Whatever the king asked, he had to do .
�One day, the king heard that somewhere in the jungle a white elephant had
appeared. "A white elephant is very rare and special in our country," the king
said. The king said to the lonely man, "You must capture this white elephant! I
have given you work. I have given you food . So you have to repay me. When
you come back, you have to come back with the white elephant. If you don ' t
bring me the white elephant, you will die."
'
�The lonely man was very upset because the jungle was very dangerous . But he
could not refuse. He went off to the dangerous jungle. He was so afraid he. could not
even look at things. He just walked with his head down. He did not notice the
monkey. He did not notice the beautiful flowers . He did not notice the ancient ruins .
He just looked down at the dirt.
�I
Boom! He bumped into something big and round and hard . Was
it a tree?
All of a sudden, it was raining .
He,looked up .
�He saw the white elephant. The white elephant was pouring
water on the lonely man.
�The white elephant had a special power. He understood people's feelings. He understood how the
lonely guy felt. The white elephant understood that
the lonely man was in trouble.
The lonely man was crying and weeping and he told
the white elephant, "I'm so afraid of you, but I have
no choice. The king ordered me to capture you, and I
am also afraid of the king. He said that ifl do not
bring you to him, he will kill me. If I do not go back,
I cannot survive in this jungle. I don't want to capture
you. I don't know how to capture you. Can you help
me?"
13
�The white elephant said, "I came to you. Do not be afraid of me. I came here just to
save you . Just follow me ."
So the white elephant took the lonely man into the deep jungle. The white elephant
took him to a very, very, very big Bo tree. They sat under the very, very, very big Bo
tree in the shade. The lonely man leaned on the Bo tree.
�The lonely man saw all kinds of animals there. They played with each
other. They loved each other. They had fun with each other. For a
moment, the lonely man forgot all his troubles . The lonely man was
tired. He fell asleep .
�In his dream, the white elephant appeared and told him , "Just go back to
the king. Tell your king that he will meet me. But he has to do something foi:me first. "
The lonely man went back to the king even though he was afraid the king
would kill him because the white elephant was nowhere to be seen .
�The king was angry and got all his swords and all his knives. The lonely man
apologized to the king and begged him, "Please listen to me before you kill me. I
met the white elephant."
When the king heard that the lonely man had met with the white elephant, his
anger cooled a little bit.
The lonely man continued, "The white elephant wants you to take all your
money and all of your treasure and give it away to the poor people. If you finally
have nothing, you will get what you want. You will get the white elephant. I will
go and get him for you.
"Are you sure?" the king said.
"Yes, I am sure. This is what the white elephant wanted me to tell you."
�I .
,:t::'
~'
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y
\
:
The king desperately wanted the white elephant. So he gave away all
his possessions to the poor. The king told the lonely man , "I did everything that you told me to do. Now it is your turn ." And he said, "Okay .
Yes."
18
�The lonely man went back to the jungle. The white elephant was waiting for
him . The elephant took the lonely guy on his shoulder.
GOOOOONNNNNGGGGG!
The king welcomed the white elephant and introduced him to all the people.
There was loud music to celebrate. People from all around heard the news that
the white elephant lived in the king' s village. Everyone wanted to come and see
the white elephant. A white elephant is very rare and very special ,
All of a sudden, the white elephant told everyone, "My name is not the White
Elephant. My name is not the White King. My name is the Prince of Peace."
�Lots of people came to see the Prince of Peace. Whenever they came, they brought presents. They brought gold
and money and many other treasures. The king became
richer than before.
�One day, the Prince of Peace--the white elephant--called the lonely guy . He told
the lonely guy, "I.have been living in the palace for many, many ~ears now. I'm
getting old now. I have to go back to my place. Back home, everything is ready for
me. You have peace and many riches, so I don't need to stay here anymore. I have
to go back."
The lonely guy told the king that the white elephant wanted to go home. Once
again, the king celebrated the white elephant. Once again, there was loud music.
There was a parade to say goodbye. There was a big feast. While the music was
playing, the white elephant took the lonely guy on his shoulders.
�-·.
They flew away and disappeared. The lonely guy
never worried about food again.
�23
�ClllNA
-\ -
Cambodia
Cambodia is a country in Mainland Southeast Asia. It is tucked
between Laos, Thailand, and Vietnam. It is about the size of the State
of Oklahoma. Its capital city is Phnom Penh with a population of about
1.5 million. In 2017, Cambodia's total population was about 16 million. Cambodia is famous for its many magnificent ancient monuments
including Angkor Wat. On its tricolored national flag, Angkor Wat is
proudly displayed with three of the five elegant lotus-shaped towers
symbolizing Mount Meru or the sacred cosmological mountain on
Earth. Most Cambodians speak Khmer, an old language of the Khmer
Empire that lasted from the 9th to 15th century. Cambodians celebrate
many festivals throughout the year; the Khmer New Year is in the middle of April. Most Cambodians observe Buddhism and enshrine it as
the national religion in the country's constitution. In the past 64 years
after gaining independence from France in 1953, Cambodia has gone
through many regime changes that killed millions of its own citizens
and properties. Currently Cambodia is at peace with a king as its head
of state and a prime minister as the country's leader.
24
�Don't Open Your Mouth, a Cambodian folktale
ubi:Jb~1untfl?il!J1M:
(1fp~ SITT Sl§f)
Long ago, the shell of the turtle was smooth, so smooth, smooth as glass.
It did not have cracks like a map. The turtle lived in a pond.
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25
�One day a couple of ducks came to play and feed themselves in the pond.
The turtle asked these ducks, "Why do you come here?"
The ducks replied, "We come here to collect supplies for the party on the
top of the palm tree ."
tdYW t!l s VIYW?ltuiiYntUHUHUbnbUtHSl: sbmuufit'nGM tfubTnn w J
'i
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26
�Then the turtle asked them, "Could I be invited to the party?"
"Yes," said the ducks . "But how can you fly up to the top of the tree? You
don' t have any wings. You don't know how to fly. "
U~UHnHt'"W7fH\!f ITT 9'1 b nn:n ~ "tfigffl 0194 Qru1t:1wUHUJbtS1: CTl St9?,,
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27
�The three animals talked about how the turtle could go up to the top of the tree.
28
�One duck got an idea. He picked up a stick with his beak. Another duck
used her beak to hold that stick at the other end. The ducks told the turtle to
bite tl1e stick in tl1e middle so tl1ey could fly him up to the top of the tree. The
ducks lay down the stick to warn the turt] e, "You must not open your mouth
and speak, okay?"
The turtle agreed, "Yes, I will not speak out."
ITTtiillS ntwm ~ StHUti ill '1 ti fitt{hj ~ :n On ITTlHnHilltiill '1 ITTtiillt<.tJ nfitLU
0~ :nonmlHnHilltS"l :tsiqtr~nbt<.tJn 1
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si
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St1fl illl:Jl trl O n 1~U bill '1JU1 H1 g ? ,,
31
29
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�Now the ducks grabbed the stick again. The turtle bit the stick in the
middle. The ducks flew up and up almost to the top of the tree. Other ducks
at the top of the tree were amazed to see this turtle coming up to the party.
ITT cfib ~iOfHntHnHWiSl :HbHr1 fi J
n
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h~r
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qru1Hciu1ruJbt~r '1
30
�All the ducks yelled, "Oh the turtle comes to us. Brother, do come too." The
turtle was so happy . He replied, "Yeah, I'm coming too."
As soon as the turtle opened his mouth to say that he was coming too, he fell
down, down, down.
All the way to the ground.
<JlITTtlHNttJunHrjtlu,HW01 ~ "f;! UtlHt'WlnHn(lilllHCT!tzUH),ntWtlttJt '1 Utl
HHl;(lnH,jtlHn '1 "
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ti::Jt '1 "
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31
�Then he hit a rock that shattered his shell.
Ht'W7ng, At<Jitmn stl Qtiwt§@Jiun tyntntto s ofrWln 1
II
32
�That is why today the turtle 's shell looks like a jigsaw puzzle.
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The End
OU
Moral of the story: Keep quiet even though you might be very happy or very mad.
Keep quiet. You can succeed by talking, but you can also die by talking.
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33
�Why the Rabbit Doesn't Drink from the Pond
A folktale from Cambodia
'tlrutmqt~ ru9 Sjl ruasan9nUb
(tU b SITTS t§f )
Once there was a snail who lived in a pond. He lived in the pond with many, many other snails.
The snail heard that there was a rabbit who lived close to the pond. He heard that the rabbit was very
fast. One day that rabbit stooped down to drink the water from the snails' pond. The snail yelled at
the rabbit, "You cannot come and drink the water from my pond! "
nl ru,hu1b S'1 Wt:fl S2JbttWtNtsi qbubttW '1
tlt NtsiqbubtS'1: thttW
2Jb t11<.rt<JJ ?HLO s nJl ru '1 2JbtITT: BtrH:fl s <.r SJ! WttWtsitnJtubtITT :h~t '1
nBt'n <.r SJ! wttitru] srun N '1 tBttW <.r SJ1 Wt ITT:~ s~ n 9ntsi gbubtu N
2Jb '1 2JbtS'1 :tuunt1.flfi9 Sj1 Wt'n ~ "iSUb <J Sj1 W! UbHSH10tfn~n9n
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34
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�The rabbit replied, "Hey, I am not bothering you. I have drunk the water from this pond
since I was born. You are a slow, slow, slow crawling animal. You cannot even crawl as far
as I can hop."
35
�The snail got so mad at the rabbit. " You insulted me. How dare you say that I could not
crawl as far as you can hop . We will run a race. We will see who wins."
8JbtSl: 8b Sb 9SJ1 WW'lb~b fitm rum ! "ttU ! ub 9SJ1 Wwbtfn s
t:f1 A tug ts b '1 ubtJ btJn st ru ltl g sH1 on rITT sub tJ bt M ft ti tu UTl s
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srrunm m '1"
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36
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The rabbit agreed to race the snail. "What are the rules?" the rabbit said.
The snail said, "I agree not to live in this pond any longer ifl lose this race."
The rabbit said, "I promise that I won't come and drink the water from this pond if I lose
thi s race."
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37
�The next morning, the snail and the rabbit started the race. The rabbit began to hop all
the way around the pond. The snail stayed in the water. After hopping for a while, the
rabbit didn ' t see any snail running behind him . He yelled, "Hey, Snail, you slow, slow,
slow crawling snail. Where are you?"
L~ntf}InH;jb 2Jb £b9SJ1WmtH~tHftLUruTlbfl1 '1 9SJ1WmtrHlfln~~
~fffitflnUb '1 2JbttJHUtsigbub '1 9Sj1llitMfiHNttWUUUn tnnnHU
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38
�-The rabbit may have been fast, but the snail knew snails were very cunning. The snail knew
that he could never crawl as fast as the rabbit could hop . But he had an idea. He would trick the
rabbit. He got all the snails together and told them to spread out all around the pond. He told
all the snails, "When the rabbit yells at us and says where are you slow, slow, slow crawling
snail, whoever is ahead of the rabbit should say, 'Coo.' That means, 'I'm here. '"
9SjH!H-fl o01 N~riiHu] S 4i ~ 2J bab 01 Q 01 N~ ijHi ~ bn.m N '1 2J b
nt~
abrntlHSH'lOf'HITT gSj1 UJHlfln~waun St9 '1 4t~n Sntwm rujon ru
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39
�All the snails lined up around the edge of the pond. The rabbit looked around. He
didn ' t see any snails. "Oh Snail, you slow, slow, slow crawling snail, where are you
now?"
2Jb cfl bH fl'.nuuu'Wl Ae1 ~ ~ ~Tmtfl ilubttwom oJ
g Sj1 WN~ bH'Ht:HU~ fffi 2S '1 fl HS tW ffi 2j bnm ti Wt M: '1 g Sj1 W
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40
a
�Right in front of the rabbit, a snail said, "Coo, I am here. " The rabbit got mad when he
heard this. He kept running very fast.
tsi 8'1tHf2 92j1 W 2JbtiWt~Wt9jbt'fl "~n gtsii:lHlJl: 1" ·HHU!J. Ntlib
I
tSl:QlH 92j1W2bu.nb~b 1 tlLUbrtimsfrnrujst9jbtuHt9Jfi 1
41
�He was almost to the finish line. The rabbit tried again, "Oh Snail, you slow, slow,
slow crawling snail, where are you now?"
9 SJl uni1Bn~ rug~olm i1 '1 9 SJl UH1JHffiHtLNntU112Jb~bt9JftCT'I ~
"tSUb 2jbctl N~flf Wftt~H~ Ubwbt£ib CW11HHUtS: ?"
42
�----------~__,,_, .
-----
VI
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A little snail right in front of him said, "I am here, coo."
2Jbiju~Wtsi81b~29Sj1Wt~WH,jbm ~ "~n gtsii:ltM: 1"
1
43
�The rabbit knew he lost the race. He lay down right next to the finish line. He knew
that the snail was right there at the finish line before him. The snail won the race.
g SJ1 w~ brnn md)rnrrilLurun bt21: '1
nrilUl ilHNnWbtui wA~rutsi
tnJt9~0Lmil '1 n~brn 2JbttwA~b runtsiLr16 g~ouniltsi 2ltltf 2tl '1
2Jbcn s ny:rnrLUf2'1fflLUrurtbt£"'1: 1
44
�I
And ever since they won the race, the snails stayed in the pond. But the rabbit no longer
visits the pond or drinks the water from it. The rabbit drinks dew instead.
mtHfl b~HHULUf!fi ny: g 2jH1.H:fn 8Jb ITT bH tut tutsi qbubtVJ fi i 4t~
g SJ1 UHUJUHntnJtub
g~n9nubt<JJfi
i g SJ1 w~n9n NtsjHf[JtAb i
I
The End
OU
The moral of the story is, ''Don't judge other people the way the rabbit judged the snail. "
Another moral of the st01y is: "A bunch ofsticks cannot be broken. "
(Cambodian proverb from the internet.)
tJ[f§7Sifflu/Jm I g 1 "ifllt1JnljjY~NJIJ!gmy11r.vug~t1JflllfnljjPJIJ r
tJ[f§7Siff!OIJmi l!J 1 "uff. lft1J01dmd§s01li r ( fl/fflNnf§f)
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45
�46
�ClfINA
Laos
Laos is the only landlocked country in Southeast Asia. It
is bordered by Burma and China to the northwest, Vietnam
to the east, Cambodia to the southwest and Thailand to the
west and southwest. Rugged mountains, plains, and plateaus make up the 236,800 square kilometers. The Mekong
River flows along the western boundary with Thailand.
Laos, also known as the Lao People's Democratic Republic, is one of the poorest communist states in Asia with a
population of 6.5 million people. It is one of Southeast
Asia's most ethnically diverse countries. One United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) report states that
there are 23 7 ethnic groups; however, only 49 ethnic groups
are officially recognized by the Laos government. The
major languages spoken are Lao and French and the major
religion is Theravada Buddhism. Eighty percent of the Lao
people are farmers.
47
�The Greedy Dog and the Meat
A Folktale from Laos
48
Once there was a dog who traveled from his home . He found a small
piece of meat in the road . The dog was excited, "I'm going to take this
meat! I am going to find a safe place to eat the meat." The dog walked on
with the meat in his mouth . He came upon a bridge. He came to the
middle of the bridge. The sun was shining brightly . He looked in the
water under the bridge.
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11B'.")20.
49
�50
He saw another dog reflected in the water, and the dog had a very big
piece of meat in his mouth. He thought to himself, "I am going to get that
big meat. I am going to take it from that other dog." It never occurred to
him that it was his reflection.
�.uui>cmuc5'>m.>'>LC1D~ e->'lu~ucieu?oieJ~2uD'l .uu0~o8oc3eJo'lcc.uuc5'>2e~LC1
ce~.
51
�He dropped his own little piece of meat
and jumped into the water to get the big
piece of meat.
52
�JJunc3e)E)')~C)~1Jtum.uu.u~:?:i!u?uJ'>cc5onn::!oo:59!tJcte~::!tJce'>C1e1J
qu?uie)~?uu'>uu.
�Oh dear! The dog looked for the meat but there was no piece of meat in the
water. He did not think about the fact that he could not swim . Not only did
he lose his little piece of meat, he also could not swim . He did not know
what to do . His greed had pushed him to want more. He began to feel sorry
for himself He did not know how he was going to cross the river.
54
�w59~yseoD'liJUi>~enm'lci_?>u9u?oimfuywu. cc~::n0f)oc5vo'>C11Jrn90tj'l9
~BE>U'l , GBUQUi>c:,J, ~BE>U'lr>UCLlU uo1}~::csoccuo?ocu'l::. CW'l l:E)O'lJ.Jbu
J.J'lnE.l'lnM°~ucieu?oimfu. cc:50.1.foi>J'>um~'le> 0~'iil::csoccuo?o~9'iil::~evtu
cJ9~0.
55
�All of a sudden, he saw an alligator swimming towards him! The dog
began to shake in fear. He was afraid the alligator would eat him for a
meal. He thought, I am going to die surely . As the alligator came closer, it
asked, "Hi dog. Do you need some help? Just tell me how I can help ." The
dog felt happy and said, "Yes, I would like for you to help me get to the
other side." The alligator replied "Hop on my back and I will help you
across the river." So the dog hopped on the alligator's back and rode across
the river to the other side. The alligator kept opening his mouth to talk to
the dog and the dog was afraid that the alligator was going to eat him up.
mu? mfu~um~Jocmucc2i ofo ~ c,139:n') :59~e,€.)JJ')tn') .iJu, .iJu:nJ')ucc21 c,Ju
m~')€.ltn9:5um9c~ucw')~J')ucc2,;y~JJ')nu.iJucuue,')m')u. JJu~ochee,€.l,;y~c,')€.l
U() 1}~ ~CU')~, WCC 2C §') JJ')? DCC :JO :n 5e,9 T) ') JJ 0') m..J') C5€.lC ~'l C1e,9 D'l U E1 O'l JJ tjo€.l
cobe,0? ej')j) ?m2e,€.ltjO€.lt))€.l9:nue,nJJ'l.
::JOUm..>'l:nO? -.Ytn~'l€.l m..>'lt9c,e,ucc20') CCDUCC:50 2!3€.>2 ?mc~'JW'l2!3€.l2'JJJ{;''l
mo€.lDLucJ91JuLo0? CC2 :nc3€.lue,n ?mm..>'JO')LO, JJ'l~m:592e,€.lDcc:502e,€)-.y~
t.)')
c~')2')JJLUcJ91Ju.
56
��58
As he approached the riverbank, the dog jumped off the alligator's back
quickly. He was so afraid that he pooped on the alligator's head as he was
getting off.
�wm.>'liu~m59cc2cc5onw'>m.>'>~tJcfi9cJ::ic~5o m.>'lnn::1cK)e>e>n'-v'>nm59cc2U1u
ffi cw'>::.1JuJ'lucc2'.vd1u.1Jutn:}'>e>nc3e>2csJmomocc2.
59
�Moral of the Story: Those who want too
much will end up getting nothing. Don't
poop on those who help you . Show respect
and be thankful.
Ulfl'luc5e9DclluE'l::e1ce1eu?~e1ul.1)9m~'>€)O'>
~')LJU)')€) eJ'lr>~OlJJ~')€) c3€)(J~oimJe€)
bUJJ')j")
C2'ltj0€)C,i'l ct'l0E'J01Ji?::,tfi'oc2'l JJ1J0t)r>C709
60
�61
�CJI JNA
Vietnam
Vietnam is a country in Southeast Asia. Vietnam is well
known for its beaches, rivers, Buddhist pagodas and bustling cities. Vietnam has a long-lasting history documented
over four thousand years. With a total land area of 331,690
square kilometers, it is bordered by China to the north, the
South China Sea to the east and south, the Gulf of Thailand
to the southwest, and Cambodia and Laos to the west. The
population is estimated to be about 92 million, including 54
ethnic groups living in the country.
62
�The Golden Starfruit Tree
Cay Kh~ Vang
7
-
--
Once upon a time, there was a very rich man who lived in a village. When he died, he left
his two sons a huge fortune. The two brothers were entirely different from each other. The
older brother was greedy, while the younger one was very kind . The older brother claimed
the whole fortune and left his younger brother only a starfruit tree.
Thu& xua, c6 mot nguai rit giau s6ng trong Jang. Ong ta qua dai, d~ l~i gia san giau c6 l~i
cho hai nguai con. Hai anh em rit khac bi~t. Nguai anh thi s6ng rit tham lam nhung nguai
em thi l~i hiSn lanh chit phac. Nguai anh chi~m tron gia tai va chi chia cho nguai em mot
cay kh~.
63
�Both brothers got married .
The older brother with his
inheritance had nothing to
worry about. Meanwhile, the
younger brother who only had
the starfruit tree was very
worried . Thus, he took good
care of his tree, hoping that it
would give him a lot of fruit so
that he could make a living by
selling it. The tree grew bigger
and bigger. It had a lot of fruit.
Ca hai anh em dSu c6 v9.
Nguoi anh v6i gia san 16n kh6ng
dn phai lo l~ng gi, nhung nguoi
em thi rAt lo vi chi c6 mot cay
kh~. Vi vay, nguoi em cham s6c
cay kh~ h~t long d@ mong thu
ho:;ich du9c nhiSu khS, ban ki~m
tiSn sinh s6ng. Cay kh~ cang
ngay cang 16n va c6 rAt nhiSu
trai .
64
�When the starfruit was ripe, a raven flew by and stopped in the tree to eat a lot of fruit.
The younger brother was very sad to see this happen every day, but he did not know what
to do.
Khi nhfrng trai kh~ tren cay chin mong, mot con qu~ bay d~n d~u tren cay va an r§.t
nhiSu kh~. Nguoi em r§.t bu6n khi th§.y qu~ ankh~ cua minh m6i ngay, anh kh6ng bi~t
lam gi.
65
�One day, he decided to stand beneath the
tree and talk to the raven : "Raven, please don't
eat my fruit. This fruit tree is my only
fortune" . "Don ' t worry" the raven replied. "I'll
pay you back with gold. Make a 2-yard long
bag. Tomorrow morning, I'll come back and
take you to get the gold. "
Mot horn, nguoi em quySt djnh dung du6i
g6c cay va n6i v6i qul;l: "Qul;l ai , dung an khS
cua ta nfra. :06 la tit ca nhfrng gi ta c6" . Qul;l
tra Io·i: "Dung lo. Qul;l se tra ll;li bing vang.
Anh bl;).n hay may mot cai tui dai ba gang tay.
Cho sang ngay mai, qul;l se tr& ll;li va cha anh
bl;).n dSn ch6 1§.y vang."
�Next morning, the raven came back. He let the younger brother sit on his back and flew
over the sea to an island filled with gold. The younger brother gathered all the gold he could
fit into the bag that he had made. Then he flew back home on the raven ' s back with a lot of
gold. He was very happy . He had become very rich.
Sang horn sau, con qu~ quay tro l~i. Qu~ dS nguai em len lung r6i bay qua biSn d~n mot
hon dao c6 nit nhi~u vang. Nguai em IAy vang b6 d~y vao tui ma anh ta da lam r6i Jen lung
qu~ bay tr6 v~ nha. Anh ta rAt vui mung. Tu d6, nguai em tr6 nen giau c6.
67
�The younger brother invited the older one to come over. The older brother said,
''No, I don ' t want to go to your shabby house". The younger brother kept inviting
his older brother to visit him. "I have something for you, Brother."
Nguai em mai anh t&i nha. Nguai anh n6i , "Khong, tao khong d~n cai nha t6i
tan cua may dau" . Nguai em nai ni mai nguai anh, "Em c6 qua cho anh".
68
�Finally, the older brother gave in. He visited his brother and found to his surprise that
his brother had all sort of riches - a very big house, lots of beautiful furniture, lots of
money.
Cu6i cung ngu&i anh chiSu theo em . Ngu&i anh d~n va r~t ngl;).c nhien khi th~y SIJ giau
c6 cua ngum em - ng6i nha to n~mg, nhiSu d6 dl;).C dep de trong nha, c6 r~t nhiSu ti Sn.
69
�"How did you get all these riches, Brother?" the older one asked. The younger
brother told him about the starfruit tree, and the raven and the trip to the island
filled with gold. The older brother offered to trade all his fortune for the starfruit
tree. The kind brother gladly accepted the offer.
The raven came as usual and ate a lot of starfruit. The older brother spoke to the
raven the same words as his younger brother did. He received the same answer
from the raven . But he was so greedy that he made a much larger bag instead of a
2-yard long bag.
The next day, the raven came to take him to the island of gold. After he filled
the bag with gold, he put the gold into all of his pockets, too. Then, he climbed
onto the raven ' s back to go home.
But the load was so heavy that when they flew over the sea, the raven tilted his
tired wings. "Let go! Let go of the gold! " the raven screamed. But the older
brother didn ' t want to let go of the gold. Finally, the raven had to drop him into
the sea.
"Em lam each nao ma tr6 nen giau c6 th~ nay?", nguai anh h6i . Nguai em k~ l.;i,i
cau chuyen cay kh~ va con qu.;i, cung chuy~n di d~n dao c6 d~y vang. Nguai anh
tham lam d~ nghi d6i h~t tai san cua anh tad~ lfty cay kh~ cua nguai em. Nguai
em t6t b1,mg chftp nhan laid~ nghi .
Qu.;i, bay d~n nhu thuang le va an rftt nhi~u kh~. Nguai anh n6i voi qu.;i, nhung
lai nguai em da n6i va cling nhan duqc cung mot cau tra lai tu qu.;i,. Nhung nguai
anh rftt tham lam. Anh ta lam chi~c tui to gftp d6i chi~c tui dai ba gang d~ dµng
vang.
Ngay horn sau, qu.;i, d~n d6n nguai anh va ch6 anh ta bay d~n dao d~ lfty vang.
Nguai anh lfty vang d~y bao. Anh ta l.;i,i lfty vang v6 vao cac tui qu~n ao. Sau d6,
anh ta leo len lung qu.;i, d~ tr6 v~ nha.
Nhung khi bay qua bi~n, anh ta va tftt ca s6 vang tr6· thanh qua n~ng cho qu.;i,.
"Vut di! Vut vang di! ", qu.;i, la to. N hung nguai anh tham lam kh6ng chiu b6 vang
xu6ng bi ~n. Con qu.;i, danh phai b6 anh ta xu6ng bi~n .
70
�V
0
•
0
0
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71
�Back at home, the younger brother waited for the older one for a very long time.
"Why is it taking so long for my brother to come back?"
The next day, the younger brother met the raven and asked where his brother was. The
raven told him that the older brother wouldn ' t let go of the gold and fell into the sea
because it was too heavy .
T~i nha, nguai em cha d .t lau, "T~i sao anh di !au r6i v~n chua v~?'' Ngay horn sau,
nguai em g~p con qu~ va h6i nguai anh dau . Con qu~ n6i ding nguai anh da khong chiu
vt'.rt b6 bot vang nen da rai xu6ng vi vang qua n~ng.
72
�- -~
Moral of the story: When you grab all things, you lose everything.
Bai hoc Juan ly : Khi b~n mu6n l~y t~t ca moi thu, b~n se m~t hSt.
73
�A Big Pot of Gold, a Vietnamese folktale
Cai Chum Vang, Chuy~n C6 Tich Vi~t Nam
Long ago, a man and his wife lived in the countryside.
They were very poor but they had good hearts.
Ngay xua, c6 hai vq ch6ng s6ng 6 mi~n que. Ho r~t
ngheo nhung c6 mot t~m long t6t.
74
��Everyday, the man went to the field , where they grew a
paddy of rice. One day, when he was plowing the soil, he
found a big pot of gold. He put it back in the soil.
M6i ngay, nguai ch6ng di ra d6ng, nai ho tr6ng lua.
Mot ngay no, khi anh ta dang di cay, anh ta tim duqc mot
chum vang 16n. Anh ta l~i ch6n cai chum vang xu6ng d§.t.
76
��When he came home, he told his wife that he found a big
pot of gold in the paddy.
"Where is it?" the wife asked. "If somebody finds it, they
wi II take it."
In a cairn voice, the man replied, " If it belongs to us, it will
be there. If somebody else finds it and takes it, it belongs to
them . If it is a gift from God, it will find its way to us."
Khi vS dSn nha, anh ta kS cho nguai vq nghe anh ta da tirn
duqc mot cai churn vang Ion 6 ngoai d6ng.
"N6 dau r6i ?" nguai V(J hoi . "NSu c6 ai tirn thfry, hose lfry
rnftt."
V 6i giong tr~rn tfoh, nguai chBng tra lai, "NSu n6 la cua ta,
n6 se con d6. NSu nguai khac tirn duqc va lfry di , thi n6 la cua
nguai fry . NSu n6 la cua Trai cho, n6 setµ tirn duang vs voi
rninh ."
78
��I
Hiding nearby, a thief overheard this conversation. The
thief went to the field , found the pot, and took it home.
But when the thief opened the Ii d, he found ... a big pot of
snakes I He put the lid back on it and took it away as fast as he
could.
Mot ke trom dang n§.p g~n d6 nghe duo-c cau chuy~n. Ke
trom di ra d6ng tim dUQ'C cai chum r6i dem v€ nha cua h~n .
Nhung khi ke trom m& n~p ra, h~n th§.y ... mot chum toan la
r~n! H~n day n~p l~i va mang chum di that nhanh .
80
��Next day, the man couldn ' t find the pot of gold in his paddy .
He told his wife, "Somebody must have taken it. I couldn ' t
find it. But if someone else has taken that gold, it is okay too,"
he said very calmly .
Ngay horn sau, nguai ch6ng khong th§.y chum vang ngoai
d6ng. Anh ta n6i voi V(J, " C6 nguai da 1§.y n6 r6i . Toi khong
th§.y nfra. Nhung nSu ai da 1§.y s6 vang d6, thi ci:ing duqc," anh
ta n6i voi mot giong rit binh tinh.
82
��The thief heard this conversation too. He thought, "That
man must be a blind person . Or a crazy man . That pot only
had snakes, no gold in it. I will bring this pot of snakes to his
home so the snakes will bite him ."
The thief put the pot in front of the yard that belonged to the
man and his wife.
Ke trom cling nghe dUQ'C. Hin nghi, " Th~ng nay phai la
th~ng mu . Ho~c la th~ng khung. Cai chum d6 toan la rin chu
kh6ng c6 vang. Tao se mang cai chum rin d~n nha cho n6 dn
may. "
Ke trom ben d~t cai chum truac san nha cua hai VO' ch6ng
kia.
84
��Next day, the man found the pot. He opened the lid
and ... he found gold inside! He was very happy .
The man told his wife what he found . "I told you . If it was
a gift from God, it would find its way home to us ."
ma
Ngay k~ d6, nguoi ch6ng thiy cai chum . Anh ta
nip ra
va thiy vang 6 ben trongl Anh ta rit vui mung.
Nguoi ch6ng kS cho V(J nghe. "Toi da bao. N~u n6 la cua
Troi cho, n6 tlJ bo v~ nha minh ma."
86
��The man and his wife became rich, and they helped other
poor people.
Moral of the story : If you are a good person ,
you will have good outcomes.
Hai V(! ch6ng trO' nen giau c6, va ho giup da nhfrng nguai
ngheo khac.
Luan ly cua cau truy~n: NSu b~n la nguai t6t,
nhfrng diSu t6t d~p se dSn v6i b~n.
88
��Biographies
Researchers
MinJeong Kim, Ph.D., is associate professor in the College of Education at the University
of Massachusetts Lowell (UML). Her research focuses on equity issues in literacy and language education of minority children. She recently conducted research on language and literacy socialization of Southeast Asian American children in classrooms as a research fellow
at the Institute for Asian American Studies at UMass Boston. She has published extensively
on language and literacy learning of children with diverse backgrounds including Asian
American children and children with disabilities.
Allyssa McCabe, Ph.D., is professor of psychology at the University of Massachusetts
Lowell. She got her Ph.D. in psychology from the University of Virginia in 1980 and has
published over a hundred scholarly pieces. She has written scholarly books and articles on
children's narrative development and a trade book for parents called Language Games to
Play with your Child. Among other projects, she has conducted interventions with both parents and teachers to improve children's ability to narrate.
Phitsamay Sycbitkokhong Uy, Ed.D. is associate professor in the College of Education
and co-director of the Center for Asian American Studies at University of Massachusetts
Lowell. Dr. Uy has also worked as a diversity trainer for the Anti-Defamation League, professional development facilitator for school districts, and research and evaluation consultant
for colleges and universities. Her research focuses on Southeast Asian American educational
experiences and family and community engagement. Dr. Uy also serves a board member
of SEARAC, Institute for Asian American Studies at UMass Boston, and the Nisei Student
Relocation Commemorative Fund (NSRCF).
Illustrators
Alicia Eafrati ("The White Elephant") was born in Berlin, New Hampshire where she
attended high school and received her associates degree in fine arts from White Mountains
Community College. She is currently living in Portland Maine, studying illustration and creative writing at Maine College of Art. Her work has a focus in fantasy and wildlife, and she
plans to direct her studies towards children's book illustrations in the future.
Website: aliceissite.wordpress.com
Instagram: alice_is_always
90
�Chrisna Khuon ("Why the Rabbit Doesn't Drink from the Pond") is a recent graduate
from the University of Massachusetts Lowell with a BA in peace and conflict studies and
a minor in English. She is currently a project coordinator at the Center for Asian American
Studies at UMass Lowell. She was about 6 when she first realized her parents had survived
war and genocide. Her mother, Chanthy Khuon, is Cambodian and has spent the last 18 years
sharing her stories w ith Chrisna. These stories have had tremendous influence in how she
sees the world and what she looks for in this world as well.
Kyle McHugh ("A Big Pot of Gold") was born in Cambridge, MA and currently lives in
Billerica, MA. Kyle is currently a senior at University of Massachusetts Lowell majoring in
Fine Arts. His favorite medium is colored pencil because he believes that with colored pencils he can achieve colors that he wouldn't be able to attain through digital imagery. Kyle's
hobbies besides drawing include long walks and gaming.
C.S. Night ("The Golden Starfruit Tree") grew up in the small town of Derry, New Hampshire. Ever since she was young, she wanted to write and illustrate for herself, as well as for
other people. She always had a passion for drawing, enjoying the experimentation of traditional multi-media: ink, paint, pastels, as well as colored pencils. She went to the University
of Southern Maine to strengthen her skills as an artist and writer, utilizing those talents to
bring characters to life by the use of vivid colors.
Website: www.facebook.com/Nightillustrates
Instagram: nigh ti Ilustrates
nightillustrates@gmail.com
Janet Paik ("The Greedy Dog and the Meat") is a rising junior at the School of Visual Arts
as a illustration major. Her parents immigrated from South Korea and she was born in Massachusetts in a very small town. Her interests include dabbling in animation, sculpture, and
painting. She aspires to create her own animated short films. Writing poetry and taking direct
inspiration from the power of spoken word has helped her form the feeling and content of
her work. Since arriving in New York her desire has expanded to become more involved in
supporting feminism, and partaking in activism . She sees herself working in the animation
industry and as a freelance illustrator living in New York.
Instagram: art_ lumpling
Thomas Souphannarath ("Don't Open Your Mouth") graduated at UML Fall 2017 as
a Fine Art major. In his spare time, he enjoys playing computer games, watching animated
shows, and practicing digital art. Some artists he looks up to are Ross Tran and Anthony
Jones. It was a pleasure for him to work on the illustrations for the story, "Don' t Open Your
Mouth." The illustrations are all done digitally on Photoshop. As a man of few words him-
91
�self, he connected to the moral of the story on a personal level. These paintings are innocent
and light-hearted. He hopes to find a job in the video game industry as a concept artist, storyboard artist, or animator.
Ellen Wetmore is a 2017 Massachusetts Cultural Council Fellow in FilmNideo and of the
2017 A.R.T. Artist Grant from the Berkshire Taconic Trust. "Art is the mitigation of an atrocious world." Born in Madison Wisconsin in 1972, and raised in Saginaw, Michigan, Wetmore lives in Groton, Massachusetts and is an Associate Professor of Art at the University of
Massachusetts Lowell.
Anne Sibley O'Brien ("Why the Rabbit Doesn't Drink from the Pond") is a writer and illustrator who has published 36 books for young readers featuring diverse children and cultures, including a picture book about a Cambodian American family, A Path of Stars, which
won the Asian/Pacific American Award for Literature, Honor Book. She also illustrated
Jouanah: A Hmong Cinderella, by Jewell Reinhard Coburn and Tzexa Cherta Lee. Annie was
raised bilingual and bi cultural in South Korea as the daughter of medical missionaries, and
now lives on an island in Maine.
Website: AnneSibleyOBrien.com
92
��ISBN 978-0-36-843775-5
JIUIJ LJJ
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019
Description
An account of the resource
The Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection consists of materials from a collaboration between UMass Lowell faculty members and community-based organizations in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area to collect and publish folktales from four community groups: Burmese, Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese.
The complete collection is available on this site.
--------------------------
SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection, 2018-2019. UML 24. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, https://libguides.uml.edu/uml24.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
A Long Long Time Ago in Southeast Asia book, 2018
Subject
The topic of the resource
Folk literature, Southeast Asian
Tales--Southeast Asia
Description
An account of the resource
The "A Long Long Time Ago in Southeast Asia: Tales from Burma, Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam" book is a collection of folktales from diverse communities including Burmese, Khmer, Laotian, and Vietnamese. Each folktale is written in English and the language of the originating community. Each folktale is also illustrated. Folktales include "The White Elephant," "Don't Open You Mouth," "Why the Rabbit Doesn't Drink from the Pond," "The Greedy Dog and the Meat," "The Golden Startfuit Tree," and "A Big Pot of Gold."
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Kim, MinJeong
McCabe, Allyssa
Uy, Phitsamay
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Folktales Book Project Collection
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
96 p.; 10 x 8 in.; 25.4 x 20.32 cm.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Burmese
Khmer
Lao
Vietnamese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
uml24_i001
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Books
Burmese
Cambodians
Laotians
Vietnamese
-
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UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, 2019-ONGOING
UML 17
Maryellen Cuthbert, Oral History #19.01
CONTENT WARNING:
Mentions of weapons, abuse, assaults, and
violent situations
INFORMANT/NARRATOR:
INTERVIEWER:
DATE:
MARYELLEN CUTHBERT (MC)
SUE J. KIM (SK)
APRIL 15, 2019
SPEAKER
DETAILS
SK
So, Okay. All right. Hmm. It sits up pretty well, but I'll put this
here.
MC
Do you think it would be better to put it in here? In the middle.
SK
Okay. Great. Wonderful. Okay. I am Sue J. Kim, and I am the
project director for the Southeast Asian Digital Archive, and the
co-director for the Center for Asian American Studies. Today is
Monday, April 15th, about 12:30 and I am with Maryellen
Cuthbert. Am I saying that right? Cuth-
MC
Yes.
SK
In Chelmsford, Massachusetts at Maryellen's home office. Thank
you so much for agreeing to talk to us today.
MC
I'm looking forward to it.
SK
Let's start a little bit about information about yourself. Sort of
where were you born? Where did you grow up? How did you find
your way to law school? I know that you went to Boston
University. Things of that sort.
MC
I was born in California. Dad was part of defense industry, so we
actually moved around a lot growing up, and we ended up in
Bedford, Massachusetts, but I went to college in New York,
Manhattanville College, undergrad. I then, as an international
affairs, international law, and French major. Then, I decided to
apply to law school. I took a year off and worked, and I actually
started at Franklin Pierce Law Center, and I finished at Boston
University School of Law in 1981. I had been working for an
attorney out in Acton who had a small practice, but was involved
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in a special ed case, special education case out of Burlington. I did
a lot of work and research for him. Then, I also worked for a firm
downtown in Boston that did a lot of medical malpractice and civil
work. I didn't like sitting in the closet answering interrogatories,
but at BU I had done the student prosecutor program. The criminal
law bug bit. I started while I was with the attorney in Acton doing
some court appointed work in Concord District Court. Gradually
moved over to where I was taking cases out of Lowell. Since the
mid to late '80s.
SK:
Okay, so that was about the mid to late '80s when you started
working with cases in Lowell.
MC:
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
SK:
Do you remember what those first cases, sort of what they were
about?
MC:
It was mostly at the district court level, and they were a variety of
cases from drunk driving cases to possession of guns and things.
But I was also at that time taking superior court cases, both in
Lowell Superior and at that time Cambridge Superior Court. I
remember at that time, we did do a lot of cases that involved gang
involvement, both the Hispanic and the Asian gangs. I remember
when I first started in that, we had Laotian. We had Vietnamese
people, as well as Cambodians. There were a lot of Dominicans,
and we also dealt with some of the Hispanic gangs. There were
drug cases also.
SK:
That was about the mid '80s when that started.
MC:
Mid to late '80s.
SK:
Mid to late '80s.
MC:
And then went through the '90s.
SK:
Do you remember some of your first, without getting too specific,
some of the first cases where you were working with Asian and
Asian American youth and gangs?
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MC:
I do, because there were the TRG, and the Grey Rags, and the
Asian Boys.
SK:
The Tiny Rascal Gang.
MC: [00:04:20]
The Tiny Rascal Gang, and all of that. One of the things that was
complicated, particularly because I was also doing juvenile work is
that at that time a lot of the weapons that were used, they were not
guns. They were machetes, and sticks, and things like that. The
cases really involved a lot of kids who I felt had to join up in order
to be safe in the schools. I remember feeling or trying to educate
myself on the gang situation. I hadn't been involved in that. Then,
finding out that there were a lot of wannabes, and people who they
had to be associated in order to be safe, just to travel around
Lowell, or even to be in the high school and some cases middle
school.
SK:
I see. At this point, you were working as a private defense
attorney?
MC:
I've always been a private defense attorney, but I've done a lot of
court appointed work.
SK:
I see.
MC:
I also, I remember at that time, tipped into what is now UTEC,
which was the street worker program, and became involved there. I
remember, and why my connection with UTEC started was I had a
young Asian male who was charged with armed robbery who told
me, "No, I wasn't there. I was at the street worker program." That's
how I became aware of that, because I went and checked it out,
and he was absolutely in that, at that place when this supposedly
robbery took place. But I remember I also at that time did care and
protection cases, which are child welfare cases. Some of the cases
that I remember being really upset about. They were upsetting to
me. Were at that time it was DSS. It's now DCF. Had a lot of very
young quote unquote social workers who were just out of college,
and didn't have a lot of life experience.
MC:
I remember one case in particular where there was a gunshot that
came through an apartment floor, and so the police investigated,
and it had happened downstairs, but the shot came through the
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floor, and so the police went upstairs and investigated what was up
there. There was a family with several children, actually probably a
single woman, and they were sleeping on mats. DCF removed the
children because they were sleeping on mats and not mattresses. I
remember being very angry, because I felt this was cultural, and it
was wrong. I remember I explained, "We need to go get
mattresses." We went to a place where we could then get used
mattresses. I said, "You don't have to use them. We'll just put them
in." We put them in, took pictures, and got the kids back, but it was
really traumatic.
SK:
In those kinds of cases, would you be appointed by the court?
MC:
I was appointed by the court to represent, in that case, the mother
of the children.
SK:
And how many… I know it's difficult to kind of quantify, but out
of your caseload, can you give us a sense of what the scale was, or
like the percentage? In the late '80s, would you say-
MC:
Probably I was working probably at least 30 to 40% of my
caseload involved Asians.
SK:
Right. You were saying at the time in the mid to late '80s, Lowell
is still, it was and still is largely Cambodian, but there were still
Laotian and Vietnamese groups, and things like that.
MC:
Right, that were there. But one of the striking things that I
remembered, when I worked with some of the young people who
are now in trouble, because there was a retaliation, or there was
this or that that was going on between gangs was that when I
represented them and they would come to my office, or I would
meet with them, at that time, the parents, or even older brothers
and sisters, had come via Thailand through Cali, and here. So I was
hearing stories of parents and what they had done as teenagers
escaping Cambodia to get to Thailand.
MC:
I remember one family that was here, they were teachers. The
father was a teacher, and other stories where they had watched a
parent being shot, and then a group of as 14-year-olds making their
way, hiding, to get to Thailand. It was just horrific. I would say, so
then I would see that and juxtapose that against they came here for
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safety, and then realized that they weren't safe with what they'd
done to protect their children, and then have cases like that. It
made me angry.
SK: [00:10:21]
Yeah. Can you remember sort of, tell us more about sort of the
cases that you met? We can talk about, focus maybe on the
juvenile cases first, and then we can talk more about some of the
cases in the care and protection?
MC:
I remember another care and protection case that I had, where I
represented a parent who had a young Asian teenage boy. What
had happened is, of course, during the gang years the parents were
struggling to keep their child off the streets, away from the gangs,
and one of the things I had learned was that particularly women
were not educated, and they tried very hard to communicate with
you.
MC:
I remember getting phone calls, and I just could not understand
what they were saying, but they were desperately trying to
communicate with me over what was going on with the child. In
this particular case, their child had been removed, because they
were trying to keep them inside and make them do homework, that
they because it was so precious to them because they could not
read or write.
SK:
Right.
MC:
So they sometimes resorted to corporal punishment, which was a
problem for DSS at that time, and if a kid reported that, the kid
went out. I remember in that circumstances the child was removed
to a foster home, where there was really no restrictions, and the
child was not under any care, and the mother was seeing her child
on the streets.
SK:
Oh my goodness.
MC:
And really upset, because now there wasn't any supervision going
on, even though their child had been taken away because of the
issue of some corporal punishment that had been used.
SK:
Do you remember the ethnicity of that family?
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MC:
That was Cambodian.
SK:
How did DSS find out about the corporal punishment?
MC:
I think the young man or the child had complained to someone, or
if there was a mark on them or something they'd say, "How did
you get that?" I had two cases like that. One, I remember there was
like a ruler or something that was used, and I remember the other
thing was a lamp cord. I had two cases like that, and I was really
angry about that, because I felt that it was wrong to do that. I had
been brought up with corporal punishment myself.
SK:
I know, me too.
MC:
And I turned out fine, I think. But it was… I also think that
sometimes if it was done by a different culture family, a white
family, the child might not have been removed.
SK:
Right. So you felt like there was bias, intentional or not, on the part
of DSS officers. Especially, like you were saying, if they're young
and inexperienced. I know from teaching contemporary literature
that sometimes the younger students would be more judgmental
than older students who understand that things happen in
complicated ways later in life.
MC:
Right.
SK:
What about communication? You were saying that the parents of
families would be trying to communicate with you sometimes. Did
you-
MC:
That's why very often you saw the family group come. When we're
talking family, we're not talking mom, and dad, and kid. Very
often, we're seeing aunts and uncles, because somebody spoke
better English. So they would come for the purposes of doing that.
It was difficult to get an interpreter to do meetings and things like
that, where you're trying to explain what was going on, and what
the rights were, and that sort of thing. But I learned in the course of
my stuff that there really wasn't a parallel system in Asia, and in
fact in some of the Asian countries there's no jury trial, so trying to
explain that in English, never mind have it interpreted or
translated, was difficult for them to understand. But also, that in
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SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
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some Asian countries I learned that some people took their child to
the government to be straightened out, and so on occasion the
expectation was different.
SK: [00:15:09]
I see.
MC:
Versus what happened here.
SK:
I see, so the expectation that the authorities would help straighten
the child out, and then be returned easily, as opposed to having
custody taken away completely.
MC:
Right.
SK:
Wow. When there were these family groups, and you were trying
to explain, I'm just trying to imagine. Was the person who spoke
English, did it tend to be like the second generation, younger
people, or just all over the place?
MC:
It was all over the place. What I find, like many cultures, that they
would say, "I speak English," and they didn't speak English well.
But, very often, also, I would find sometimes they didn't read or
write, and they won't tell you that. I always had to kind of assume
and maneuver around that.
SK:
I'm trying to imagine how you would explain a person's rights, and
the jury trial, and the whole process was so complicated.
MC:
Right.
SK:
What was that like?
MC:
Well, trying to make it so that people understood what that right
was, and very often sometimes you were using a young person
because they spoke better English, but they weren't really that
interested in making sure that all the intricacies were conveyed to a
parent. I saw sometimes that was maybe a little bit of a problem,
because you had a juvenile, or a young person who was maybe
more in charge of the family, because they spoke English, and they
went to all the appointments and places with the parent or the other
people. I had those situations too, where it was a child literally you
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SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
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know taking the parent to appointments, and trying to interpret,
and they may not have gotten it themselves.
SK:
You took great pains to try to communicate with your clients. Did
you get much support from the court systems in helping you
managing-
MC:
We had interpreters that were in the court system, and there were
some very good interpreters, but there were other interpreters. I
didn't know what they were saying, but I know that we were
talking constantly, and the interpreter was saying a few words,
stopping. You didn't know what really to do. I will say one time, I
have always, like with my clients who speak Spanish, I speak a
little Spanish. I could go down to the lockup. I could go there and
say, "I am an attorney. I am here for you. I'm going to get an
interpreter. I will be back with an interpreter," or the parents were
there.
MC:
At one point, I will say I contacted, and I set up a lunchtime
training at the Lowell District Court with the Cambodian Mutual
Assistance League, and I asked them to come and teach us some
phrases. They were reticent to do so. In fact, they kind of kept
telling us, "We are not to interpret or anything." I think I might not
have even communicated that. Because it was like, "No, I'm not
asking you to interpret in the court. We're asking you to give us
some phrases," so we could go down and assure somebody that
there was an attorney going to look out for them.
MC:
We did learn a few phrases we forgot, but it was hard. I think it
was really up to us to learn and ask about customs. Cato, who is an
interpreter, I know once came and would explain some customs.
Going into the houses. Because I, especially working with
juveniles, you want to see the home and things. Taking off your
shoes, and doing things like that.
SK:
Did things change at all? Like sort of moving into the early, mid
'90s?
MC:
When it got later, I didn't have defendants or people who were
born outside of the states. Some of them had been here for a long
time. Many of them had come through not… Stockyard,
California.
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SK: [00:20:04]
Stockton?
MC:
Stockton, California. There were others that had come through, and
I had learned came through into the Midwest, and had worked for
Blue Bunny Ice Cream. I heard those stories too, that they worked,
and then they would end up coming to Lowell, because they had
relatives, or friends, and there was a community here.
SK:
Right.
MC:
Now I started seeing people who had been here longer, and then
some that had even been born here.
SK:
Did it change? I mean, so when you were describing sort of like
the mid late '90s, the gangs, and then also the care and protection,
did the nature of your work with community-
MC:
I think it did, and I always thought, one of the things that I thought
about was in the gangs and stuff, being Irish, and I had learned
about Irish gangs, which were horrific, which nobody talks about
anymore. But I realized, when you learn the stories of them
coming through Thailand. Many of them had been born either in
Thailand, or they come through the Philippines, or whatever, that
the gang thing was not just gangs to go out and do bad stuff. It's
the way your family got fed in the camps. I learned that, and so I
began to see kids who were older, but had remembered that kind of
lifestyle.
SK:
You were hearing this from, I mean was it the younger kids telling
you, or the parents telling you? It's interesting. How did the I guess
genealogy of gangs-
MC:
The parents would be the ones who would tell you more of the
stories. I think the younger people became like, the term we use
was lace curtain Irish. We didn't want to say we were from the sod.
We were there. They really wanted to appear more Americanized.
One of the things that was interesting is we went from kind of the
gang clashing to times where I remember lots of baby showers, and
barbecues in the backyard, and the police were just showing up and
hassling people, and we would end up with arrests.
SK:
Right, in Lowell.
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MC:
In Lowell.
SK:
Are you talking specifically about Lowell, but also in other places
in Massachusetts?
MC:
No. Mostly Lowell. Mostly Lowell.
SK:
Was it, I guess, in terms of showing up at baby showers and
hassling people, was it people who might have associated with
gangs in the past. You know what I mean? Like wear the clothing,
or have the tattoos and things like that, but be living sort of normal
lives.
MC:
Right.
SK:
But that association was still there with the police.
MC:
Right. The association. Even two years ago, I had a case that
involved, actually it was not an Asian gang, but there were some
Asian members. A group called Young Gunners, in Lowell, and
they were really kids who had grown up together. The police came
in and did a hearing in juvenile court where they said, "These are
gang members." There were a few people in the gang. They had a
portfolio, and a file folder, and were deceased. I recognized kids
that were no longer involved. It was when they were young. So it
was like once a gang member, always a gang member. I still see
that today.
SK:
Do you think that that is racialized at all? That there is a tendency
more to see that particularly with ethnic minority groups?
MC:
Only because my experience in Lowell. The Young Gunners is not
necessarily an Asian gang. It's more of a group of kids, and it was
described on the witness stand as kids who had grown up together.
And so with regards to the Hispanic gangs, which there isn't a lot
in Lowell. We're not really seeing gangs in Lowell. But, the police
will still say. I still see it in the police that they're a self-admitted
gang member, way back when, when they were in school, when
they were a young person. We don't see the gang activity. We don't
see the arrests for that kind of thing now.
SK: [00:25:00]
Right.
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MC:
But, we still see that language and stuff put in a police report.
SK:
Right. What are some of the other stories that sort of stick out in
your mind, particularly say working with the gang members, the
youth, juvenile offenders?
MC:
I remember there were stories where the gangs would go after one
another, and you don't understand why. They were just their
territory, or that territory. Why? That always was like, why?
People really hurt and stuff. But as things progressed, we had more
guns involved. I do remember going and looking at bullet holes at
a house next to the Pailin Palace.
SK:
There were just a couple shootings in 2018. You know.
MC:
Right. And that sort of thing. I had a juvenile who, it wasn't a
juvenile. He was barely an adult. Who, they got a gun, and they
went, and the gun went off, and somebody died, and it was a young
Asian male. I remember dealing with someone who had shot
someone, and it was almost unreal, surreal to them that that
actually happened.
[00:26:32]
[phone begins ringing in background]
SK:
Right.
MC:
But, I think there was a lot of protection that needed to be ... Let
me just shut that off.
[00:26:49]
[answering machine message comes on in background: Hello. This
is Maryellen Cuthbert. I'm unable to take your call at the moment.]
MC: [00:26:55]
Sorry. So we didn't see the machetes and the sticks anymore. We
were seeing guns.
SK:
Would you say that transition happened in the-
MC:
In the '90s.
SK:
'90s.
MC:
The late '90s. Yeah, mid to late '90s. All of a sudden it was guns.
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SK:
What was it like? Did you have kind of more kind of like personal
level? When you were talking to a defender, or meeting with a
defendant for the first time, what was your, I don't know how to
put it, philosophy, or approach, especially given your experience
working with the community members?
MC:
I first always tried to establish a relationship, and made sure they
understood my role was to advocate for them or to defend them, no
matter what. I always thought, and I understood that there really
was a mistrust. They saw us as part of the system, and I could see
that. So initially, you tried to listen, and understand, and that's
where I got a lot of the stories, because I would ask for
background, and how you got here, and things like that. Because
there is a mistrust, and to really make them understand my role
was to defend, no matter what, and they could tell me anything. I
did go to homes to see, and particularly when I'm dealing with a
juvenile, to see what they're dealing with.
MC:
Also my office is here in Chelmsford. They can't find Chelmsford.
In many cases they don't drive. They work. Lowell, I think the
Cambodian community has spread out in Lowell, but it was in the
downtown area, where it was very compact. So, you went there.
And so it's very different now, I think, in terms of being able to
find Chelmsford. They're a little bit more worldly.
SK:
Right. People are moving out into the suburbs in the second to
third generation.
MC:
Right.
SK:
Where your office is, where were you based? Were you always
based here but then you moved around?
MC:
I've always been in Chelmsford. I had another office in
Chelmsford, but I'm in court so much doing criminal defense work,
this allows me to work early morning and late at night.
SK:
Did you work very much with adults in the early years, in the '80s
and the '90s?
MC:
I did. I worked with adults also, and we've changed so that 17 yearolds who were considered adults are no longer adults.
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SK:
I see.
MC:
But, yes. There were young adults who were in the age group, too.
I'd say it was probably 50-50 that were young adults, 17, 18, 19,
20, and then juveniles that were involved in the gangs, and things
like that. For a long time, I hate to say it, when you thought
Cambodian in Lowell or Asian, they must be in a gang.
SK: [00:30:23]
Right.
MC:
I remember learning about tattoos and things that would appear on
the face. The tears and stuff.
SK:
Right.
MC:
The assumption was tattoos, they must have a gang. Until
somebody explained to me when you ask what they are. They're
for somebody who's deceased, or symbols for this or that. That was
another way that sometimes it would be a response. At first I'd ask,
"What does that mean? What does that ..."
SK:
So it was by talking to the clients and their families about what
things mean, learning about their background. As opposed to,
where were you hearing the other? Was it in the courts, or just
social?
MC:
About?
SK:
About the perception of Cambodians, particularly, in Lowell.
MC:
Yeah, just around. I think that's the way it was. It was assumed
they must be in a gang. The other thing that we saw in the '90s
were the girls in the gangs that we did not see very early on, but
then we saw the girls in the gangs.
SK:
What did you see? How did you come across them? How were
they different? How were they similar?
MC:
The girls were generally associated with a gang member, but I
learned about the gang rapes, and the jump-ins and the jump-outs. I
actually was at a jump out once. Somebody alerted me to one. I
went with a group to try to stop it.
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SK:
This is for the record. Can you explain what a jump-out is?
MC:
If you want to leave a gang, and also that was one of the things that
was interesting, particularly in the courts. Judge Blitzman made it a
point to educate himself about things also. So, he began to spread
the word. Where we learned that they'd say no gang involvement.
People didn't understand that to just leave a gang and say, "I'm not
involved with you," was a dangerous proposition for them. That
the seniors had to mediate their way out, and that's a lot of times
where UTEC has come in, the street workers and stuff, and we
begin to explain to judges, because we learned that, so they'd say,
"No gang activity" versus "no gang association."
SK:
Right.
MC:
I still think that's an issue.
SK:
Right.
MC:
I still think that's an issue.
SK:
Actually that brings up a good, interesting ... With the judges, you
mentioned Judge Blitzman. What was his--
MC:
Jay Blitzman is a juvenile judge. He's the chief juvenile judge in
Middlesex County. He sits primarily in Lowell. He became very
aware, and made all kinds of attempts to be involved. He goes into
the schools and stuff, and learn about the culture.
SK:
I would imagine a lot, but how influential was this position, or the
understanding of judges in cases like this? How big of an impact
do you think-
MC:
I'm going to be very blunt. I think he was the only judge that I'm
aware of that made any attempt to understand the cultural and the
norms of that. I know when I became aware of it, I started to
explain to the judges, "Your Honor, we cannot say no gang
association. That would be really dangerous for them to do, to just
say, 'I can't talk to you,' or whatever anymore." So we began to try
to adjust the language and the verbiage that got used in the court in
order to do that. Then, also we did refer to UTEC. When we had a
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kid that wanted to get out, or we said can't get them to mediate
their way.
SK:
How receptive were judges and others in the court system to your
attempts to kind of explain these things to them?
MC: [00:34:51]
I will tell you that Judge Blitzman I thought was very receptive. A
couple years ago, I had a case. It did not involve an Asian gang
member, but it was a Caucasian kid. There was another judge
involved, and he had grown up with a gang. They really weren't
doing anything but hanging out together, but he had gotten caught
doing something, and he was on probation. The term the judge had
used was "no gang activity." He had done some time at DYS, and
he had come out, but this was still his friends, and he was on house
arrest. He was associated with UTEC and doing everything. I had
to say, "You can't say no gang association, because he's doing very
well at UTEC, and there are gang members there."
SK:
Right.
MC:
So you're trying to educate judges, and probation officers and
things that you can't just do this. But in any case, what happened is
there was another member of that gang that was on trial that I had,
and there was some Facebook stuff that went back and forth, and
gang sign that was shown on Facebook. The probation officer
brought them in, and that juvenile was surrendered on a probation
surrender. I appealed it, because I said, "This is not gang activity.
This is association." I went to the appeals court. I don't know
whether they laughed me out or not. I said, "You know what? I
walk into my courthouse every day and I have to show a Bar card,
that I'm associated with the Mass Bar Association, but I do not
subscribe to everything that they do and say. It is the same way.
This is the culture." I lost that one. The argument obviously didn't
fly well, but people don't see it that way, that it was a matter of
survival, and that it became a matter of association.
SK:
And then leaving is not as simple as just turning around and
walking away.
MC:
Right.
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SK:
Right. Other than sort of, you know, we focus a lot on the gang
related activity, and we've talked a little bit about the sort of care
and protection, custody. Were there other sort of areas in which
you had a lot of experience, you had experience with the Southeast
Asian community?
MC:
Well, I used to go to the Cambodian Light of the Children, it was
the reading cover-
SK:
Light of Cambodian Children. Right. Right.
MC:
I missed the, they used to have a big dinner. I enjoyed that. That
was one of the ways where I think some of the population in
Lowell that didn't know where we learned a lot about the dances,
the stories, and food, and things like that.
SK:
You know Sayon Soeun, then? Who was the I think director of
Light of Cambodian Children.
MC:
I don't know personally, but I think Cato was the interpreter made
us aware of that. I went a few times to that. They don't have them
anymore.
SK:
I know. Light of Cambodian Children unfortunately shut down a
few years ago, but they did a lot of work in the '90s and the 2000s,
helping bridge like the youth and the community.
MC:
The dances, and the other thing is the publicity about the Angkor
Dance Troupe, which helped I think show that there is not this
mindset of gang. That there's a whole 'nother group, and that there
are customs to be preserved. There are memories, probably some
bad memories, but there are also some customs that kind of did
what they could to bring that out.
SK:
Did you have very much experience with ... From the academic
perspective, when we talk about health disparities, or educational
disparities, or even oral histories in the Southeast Asian
community, you always have to deal with trauma, because there's
no way to get around sort of like the trauma of the killing fields, or
war, being a refugee, and things like that. I'm sure it was sort of
imbued a lot of what your work with the community members, but
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did you ever come face-to-face with it in specific instances? Like,
you know, from family members, or from your clients?
MC: [00:39:53]
You know, what's really interesting, and I just printed off an article
on trauma, because it is the in thing right now with juveniles, and I
was reading an evaluation for a juvenile, and there were some
articles and stuff, and I was just printing them off so I could read
them and stuff. But, in the '80s and the '90s, we weren't talking
about trauma, but we had to know that's there.
SK:
Right.
MC:
I remember there's a story that I heard, and it was a man who had
come through such trauma. He had been in Cambodia, and this was
an adult superior court client, and he had I believe his family was
shot, and he left with some cousins, and he described to me hiding
in the woods, traveling at night to get to Thailand, and they made it
there. But in that timeframe, so the trauma I knew had to be really
bad for him, but he was just kind of very accepting of things. So he
got to Thailand, and he was there, and he had worked in
construction in Thailand, and then gotten himself ... I think they
joined, and as I understand, sometimes groups would join up and
say, "We're a family," and that they could get here as a family, but
it got people here.
MC:
So he got here with someone who they called a family, and when
they got here, the woman died. But there were some children there,
but he connected with another woman that he had known in
Thailand. Unfortunately, she had a terrible alcohol problem, so he
was kind of raising her now teenage kids. So, the girl, and the girl,
his would have been a step daughter was, as he put it, running the
streets in Lowell, and she was connected with someone who was
an older gang member, and he was trying to keep her home. He
actually went out with her brother, and went to the home, and tried
to pull her back and stuff, and then got her home.
MC:
He put a trash bag over her, because she was acting like trash. I
think he used a broom handle. He was trying to discipline her. This
was a case that I had done. The police became aware of it or
something. She complained. Then, she claimed rape on his part. I
thought about, "How much more trauma can this person take?" She
claimed rape, but she miscarried, or the baby died. She had said
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that all along, that it was his baby. It must have happened because
of that. He was, "No, no, no." We insisted on DNA. Sure enough,
was not his. It was not his.
MC:
He just was like calm. I thought, "How does he deal with this?"
Then, so we went to trial. In fact, the DA's office fought me on
trying to get this information in, that she had made this false claim,
etc, etc. The problem is she had had some bruises, and he had also
spoken with the police, with a Cambodian speaking interpreter
police officer, and made some statements about hitting her, and
why. We went to trial in Lowell Superior Court.
SK:
Was that for assault?
MC:
Initially it was on the rape, and all that stuff, and everything. The
jury found him not guilty of everything, with the exception of
assault and battery.
SK:
Right.
MC:
And I was appalled. They gave him six months. I thought that six
months committed for doing that. He was taking care of someone
else's kids. I was appalled, and I remember we went to the jail. At
this point, he had connected with another young woman wanting a
family. Who wouldn't? He took care of her, because she was
pregnant. She had come through the Midwest somewhere, and she
was pregnant. It wasn't his. She was much younger than he was,
but he was taking care of her.
MC:
I went to the home, and it was neat as a pin, and stuff, and he had
brought a TV that the picture was half gone. He was proudly
showing me how he fixed the vacuum cleaner and stuff. He was
taking care of a family again. I said, "How do you do this and just
keep going?" I did see an obituary a few years ago for him. He
probably died in his 50s, or whatever. Those things, you just, you
think about the trauma and everything, but I think we don't think
about that or attach that label to adults as much as we are with the
children.
SK: [00:46:02]
I think, especially in Southeast Asian American studies, with
adults, it's usually associated with not communicating. So the
second generation or the younger kids might act out in a variety of
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ways, whereas the first generation, a lot of it is very repressed, or
manifests as health problems, and things like that.
MC:
Right.
SK:
There were two things that came up. Did you see or did you have
much experience with domestic violence, or domestic abuse within
the community?
MC:
I'll say that we heard situations, but I would suggest in my
experience across the board, no more than ...
SK:
Right.
MC:
And I didn't hear about it in any other extraordinary way.
SK:
Right. You didn't come across many cases related to that, or
probably for a variety of reasons.
MC:
No. And when you talk about domestic abuse, it may be like mom
hitting the kid to get him to do the homework. But very often, I
will say despite the fact that we did see Cambodian males hookup
and make these families, I will say very often it was a woman
alone raising the family, without being able to speak or read
English.
SK:
Where were the fathers, or the men?
MC:
I think many times they were widowed, or they may have
connected with someone to come through. I heard those stories.
But then, they would leave the family, or the man wasn't, you
know... And so they were on their own raising the kids.
[00:47:44]
[phone begins ringing in background]
SK:
What about substance abuse? How common was that as an issue?
Sorry.
[00:47:49]
[button pressing in background]
MC:
Sorry. I'm trying to turn this just off.
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SK:
I don't think I even know how to use regular phones anymore.
MC:
I know. So anyways, I think that alcohol did play a part. But again,
in every culture we saw that. The thing we might have seen
different a little bit, and I remember I handled a case once, was
gambling, which was, there were the corner stores and the
gambling, which was more prevalent for the Southeast Asian
community.
SK:
What kind of gambling?
MC:
I'm not sure, but there was some kind of number games, or it was
gambling. In fact, I had home invasion cases where they knew that
there would be money, because people were gambling. I don't
know if they were dice games or whatever. I know I had two or
three of those cases where they went in with masks, because they
knew it was an Asian. They were gambling, and there would be
money.
SK:
Right. The perpetrators, the defenders were also Cambodian. They
knew in the community who was-
MC:
Right.
SK:
You mentioned several times working with UTEC, and I'm a huge
fan. When did you start working with them? What was the nature
of your collaborations with them?
MC: [00:49:36]
Well, I started back when it was a street worker program, and that's
because I had a client who said, "I couldn't have been there. I was
here." So then I began working with United Teen Equities Center,
as I found out that they had resources. They would sometimes go
find a kid, that I needed in court, who I couldn't locate. They
weren't showing up for court dates, or they would enable me to
meet with them and the family. Actually sometimes their street
workers would bring a parent and a child, and they would help
interpret for me at the UTEC building. First when it was over
behind the high school there, and then once it became where it is
now. Then there were times when we had a client who had done
something who was on the run and needed to turn themselves in,
and I would assist with that. Sometimes I couldn't do much, but I
could walk through the process with them.
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SK:
Right. That was starting in the '90s, late '90s, early 2000s?
MC:
I'm trying to think. Probably in the '90s, when I knew it as the
street worker program, and when they were over at the church. It
was at St Anne's there. St Anne's.
SK:
Yes.
MC:
I was going over there to ... They could frequently meet a kid, or
because the high school was there I could meet a kid there. I could
get them to go there after high school. Either that, or when Burger
King was downtown, particularly with the boys. I'd have my
coupons, and we would eat. Sometimes it would be them and their
friends. We were sitting at another table. But I knew as long as we
could have food on the table, I could get them to work with me a
little bit.
SK:
You also mentioned the Boys & Girls Club, and the YMCA. I
mean what was-
MC:
And Girls Inc. There are other. Those are organizations that also,
that helped like if we needed community service, or try to get a
program and stuff.
SK:
I see. Right.
MC:
One of the things that I think was very different, and was a struggle
was out here in the suburbs and stuff, the parents signed their kid
up for soccer. There's a sign. Soccer sign ups, T-ball sign up, and
that sort of stuff.
SK:
Yeah. My cousin has my niece's summer all planned out.
MC:
Yeah. They know to do that. As much as I sometimes felt that the
Asian population, they wanted to become, they weren't those
athletes, that kind of stuff. So sometimes, I hate to say this, but
with the Hispanic kids, or for the Brazilian kids, or whatever, I
could go get a soccer sign-up sheet, and fill it out, and say, "Sign
here" and stuff, and get that. Versus I wasn't able to do that so
much. There wasn't an interest.
SK:
Right.
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MC:
On the part of the Asian students in doing that. They weren't aware
of that.
SK:
Right.
MC:
I know that I asked my ... My long-term partner is from Taiwan.
We've traveled back there and stuff, and I'd say, "So, what did you
do for sports? You don't have that." Because I said, "Well, they're
always at the World Series of baseball, so it must be a big sport. Is
it organized?" He said in the Asian countries, and he spent some
time in China and stuff, is that they're just not as organized. He
said like track and field, running. That they did that, but there
wasn't that kind of organized sports. That was another way for kids
to become involved. So we could try to do that, and they would
involve them in other activities, because they weren't so involved
in the sports.
SK:
Right. But what were some of those other activities?
MC:
I know Girls Inc. had the activities for girls. I know they did
different things.
SK:
You mean like crafts and things?
MC:
Crafts. They did some of the swimming lessons at the Y, but they
had just kind of hangout kind of stuff, programs.
SK:
This was even for youth, because this is for a lot of nonprofits.
They do these kinds of things, because in the grant applications
they say this is to sort of prevent, to give you something to do to
prevent sort of like getting into crime and things like that. But
these were also things that you could find for clients like after, like
for community service.
MC: [00:54:57]
You were looking for that, and for after school, because parents
were working, and they're working third shift. That was another
thing that I saw. I don't hear it so much anymore, but was it
MACOM that was up there. One parent was working one shift, and
another parent was working the other shift, and that wasn't
uncommon.
SK:
Right.
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MC:
That wasn't uncommon.
SK:
I think the second and third generations are transitioning more into
normal nine to five jobs, and professions, and things like that.
MC:
Right.
SK:
Yeah.
MC:
Right. So, it was, so you were looking for ways to keep kids
occupied, but I also knew they were kind of, as I spoke, distrustful,
and I don't blame them. But also, within their community.
SK:
Right.
MC:
Taking care of each other within the family oriented.
SK:
Did you have very much experience with or interaction with
immigration? Just because I know that the whole issue of
Southeast Asian deportees now depends on two things, like the
repatriation agreements between the U.S. and like Cambodia and
Vietnam, but then also usually the record of felony or
misdemeanor convictions, and things like that.
MC:
I don't do that kind of work, but at first it really wasn't much of an
issue, and Cambodia didn't take, so it wasn't an issue so much, so
we weren't working that out. So, I became aware in the last year or
so, and I'm not going to say too much of somebody who's working,
or a couple people who have had convictions for serious crimes,
but are now working in the community, raising families, and stuff
like that. They are available to be deported.
SK:
Right.
MC:
I have a brother who's with the Jesuit Volunteer Program, and my
sister-in-law was with the Maryknolls, and they met at BC. They
did that together, and then they went to Bolivia, and were there.
So, when I became aware of this, and that they're kind of living on
the edge, wondering if they're going to get picked up, I contacted
my brother and I found out that there is these Maryknolls who have
in Cambodia a group there, and the Jesuits were there, but I'm not
sure, but they're there. Because, my understanding is that for these
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people who have never been there, or lived there, or whatever, and
they go back, that they're just dropped off with nothing, and they
don't know the language.
SK:
Right. They don't know anything about the country.
MC:
Don't know nothing about the country. Don't have any contacts
there. They end up being like street people and everything. So we
handed the name out to a couple and say, "You need to make sure
you keep this name on you if something happens, and you get
yourself to ..." Because, they do use some of the people that they
can to help with others that are coming back. They start work
projects, and things like that. When somebody came to me and told
me that, I was like horrified, because it's a friend.
SK:
Right. So it's only recently that this has come to your attention?
Because I know before 2002, when Cambodia and U.S. signed a
repatriation, it just they didn't accept deportees at all. Then even
after 2002, they did, but it wasn't ... It wasn't really on your radar
until recently, right?
MC:
Yeah. It wasn't. Not for Cambodia. No.
SK:
Right. I see.
MC:
And it just, that just like horrifies me to think about that.
SK:
Especially people, like you were saying, people who have been
through so much in their early years, and it could be 20 years ago
that they were convicted.
MC:
One of the things that I think is really modern, and I've also
become a little bit aware of, and concerns me a little bit. It's a hot
issue right now. Is trafficking. I know that the legal community is a
little bit concerned because of all of the nail salons.
SK: [01:00:00]
Right. I see.
MC:
And young women that are here. Many of them don't speak
English, and they're here for a short amount of time, and they're
working long hours and stuff. That, people are wondering about
that issue for the Asians. Then of course with the whole Kraft
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thing, like all of a sudden people questioning what's going on in
our nail salons, and our salons here.
SK:
Right.
MC:
If trafficking has become an issue with Asian women.
SK:
I see. Yeah, there's a couple people. Actually, Sheldon Zhang at
UMass Lowell. He's the chair of the School of Criminology and
Justice Studies. He works in trafficking in Asia. There's I think a
couple other faculty there.
MC:
I've had a couple over adult female from China that they said,
women who were I think being trafficked.
SK:
I see. It was an issue of concern, or like ...
MC:
I think it's something, now there's a little bit of issue of concern
about the young women that are here, and clearly recently here,
and whether they're protected.
SK:
I see. Sort of moving towards the end, I want to definitely give you
a chance to talk about any other stories that you want to talk about.
MC:
I hope I'm giving you the information.
SK:
This is great. But I'm wondering, since you started working
particularly with the Southeast Asian community since the '80s,
what would you say are some of the biggest changes? The other
question is what are some of the things that surprisingly have not
changed? In terms of working with, your experiences with the
Southeast Asian community. What's changed?
MC:
Have not changed, I'm going to say dealing with the police
community is like ... They're a self-admitted gang member. When
we really don't have ... I'm not seeing it in stuff, a huge gang issue.
SK:
I see.
MC:
In Lowell, like we were. But, just being able to grow up and move
away from that, and also not seeing it, looking back with some
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perspective and saying, "This is what happened, and why that was
there. That was happening."
SK:
That's what has? Sorry.
MC:
That has not changed. I think law enforcement's perspective.
SK:
I see.
MC:
On-
SK:
Has not changed.
MC:
"You're a gang member-"
SK:
That perspective of, "Once a gang member, always a gang
member."
MC:
Right.
SK:
That perspective has not changed.
MC:
Right.
SK:
I see.
MC:
From that standpoint. I still do think that there is, for the minorities
in Lowell, still a different treatment by law enforcement than
someone who is Caucasian. I still think that in the schools, that
rather than see that there's a kid who was brought up by a mother
who did not speak English, or read or write in any language, so
they didn't get a start, and also dealing with the trauma issues in
terms of helping to catch up kind of thing. The other issue is
because so many people have records, that they're hung around the
neck. We're trying to get to them, and see what we can do to undo
CORIs, and things like that. From that standpoint, growing in
terms of certain aspects of the population.
SK:
What do you mean undoing CORIs.
MC:
Undoing CORI. In other words, trying to seal records, and things
like that, for job opportunities.
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SK:
I see.
MC:
And that sort of thing. And, when you look at it from the
standpoint, also, from ICE standpoint. When you have someone
that 20 years ago, because they were part of a gang, and got
involved in some melee or something, and is now married, and has
children, and working, and stuff, that they cannot get away from
that. That there's kind of the law enforcement government pegging
them, and not being able to move away from that. From the
standpoint of change that we're seeing Asians in the DA's office.
There are a few Asian police officers. We're seeing among our
ranks and attorneys, as well as in other professions that they are
moving beyond Queen Street, and those areas.
SK: [01:05:40]
Right.
MC:
In Lowell. Moving out, and doing those things.
SK:
Are you seeing very many probation officers of Asian descent, or
other corrections officers?
MC:
We have a few within the Lowell community that are Asian and
stuff. But, I still think that there's more diversity. They're aiming
for diversity in the ranks of law enforcement, which I clump as the
police, as well as DAs, probation, courts, things like that.
SK:
So it's gotten better, but it could be more better.
MC:
Right. One of the things, and I'm really happy about this, and I
hope that is there could be really more education put out there for
us. As I said, I try to do that too, communicate to us what the
culture of differences are, how to handle cases and deal with
people so that we are doing it effectively, and being able to work,
and also just being seen as trusted, as part of their team.
SK:
In addition to sort of more people, more cultural diversity, have
you seen any improvements? Like the kinds of work that you were
trying to do by yourself, explaining cultural differences to a judge
or to a probation officer, have there been any kind of efforts to do
that maybe more systemically, or more broadly?
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MC:
Well, a little bit. I'll never forget, we had a kid at the Angkor
Dance Troupe come in, brought a few of his friends. He's doing a
dance on the New Year, with an ankle bracelet, a GPS bracelet
because he was on probation.
SK:
Oh my goodness.
MC:
And stuff. So, I know in our juvenile court, we try to. That there's
been some attempts to make people aware that there's a couple
festivals, and things like that. But, there's always arrests at those
and sometimes people go, "I'm not going in there for that."
SK:
Right. I see. I see.
MC:
It isn't as widely spread as the folk festival, for instance, as
publicized and stuff. I saw this year, like for instance, that is the
Cambodian New Year the same as Chinese New Year?
SK:
The Cambodian New Year is in April.
MC:
That's what I was thinking, that it's different. Versus, there's some
functions and different things that go on for Chinese New Year. In
fact, we go down to Boston.
SK:
Right, in February.
MC:
There's the dragon, the lion dance and stuff down at one of the
restaurants down here. And Westford Academy, for instance, has a
large number of Chinese students, or Taiwanese-Chinese, and so
they had a whole thing in the school. I had never seen that at the
Cambodian New Years celebration. Maybe, but I'm not aware of it
up there, which would make us ... Those kinds of cultural events,
really publicizing them, and making us aware that there's those
holidays too.
SK:
Right.
MC:
Which I would really like to become more aware of.
SK:
But it's not sort of saying the training for police officers, or for
district attorneys. I don't know. Things like, I mean the broad term
Page 28 of 35
�UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, 2019-ONGOING
UML 17
Maryellen Cuthbert, Oral History #19.01
is cultural sensitivity training, or those kinds of things. That hasn't
maybe increased since the '80s.
MC:
I don't think that it has. I don't think that it has. I think Vanna
Howard. Do you know Vanna?
SK: [01:10:01]
Yes. She's fantastic.
MC:
Well, I know her through her husband, Greg. In fact, I was at her
wedding. Has done quite a bit to try to do, but she can't do
everything.
SK:
Right.
MC:
I think she's on the same list with you, isn't she? For being
honored.
SK:
I think that the same things, that there's a lot of parallels between
sort of like the law enforcement, and education, and healthcare.
That there have been improvements since the '80s and the '90s, but
we could still have further to go.
MC:
One of the things that I also became aware of, if you go into
healthcare, into one of the big Boston hospitals, our interpreters
that we use in the courts are also medical interpreters, and they're
being called in there to interpret, and the insurance has to pay for
that and everything. Versus you go to Lowell Community Health
Center, there's no official interpreter there for people who are
going. It's really interesting to me that there's such a disparity in
healthcare making sure that people understand. We now have a
language line that we can use, so that when I'm with someone I can
do that. But I'm also, I'll ask, "Is this your dialect?" They'll say,
"Yes," and sometimes I wonder whether they are understanding
everything.
SK:
Right. The way to check is to ask. But then if you're not
understanding the language, then-
MC:
Yeah, if the interpreter's saying, "Do you understand everything
I'm saying," and everything, and then I try to get them to repeat it
back.
Page 29 of 35
�UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, 2019-ONGOING
UML 17
Maryellen Cuthbert, Oral History #19.01
SK:
Yeah.
MC:
But it's this kind of thing that I'm really excited about, because I
think that will help them more. Like that event that was held by the
Cambodian Children of the Light.
SK:
Yeah, Light of Cambodian Children.
MC:
Yeah, because a lot of attorneys and stuff went, and there were
politicos, and things like that. It was an event to show up at in
Lowell.
SK:
I see.
MC:
And so there became an awareness.
SK:
It was an annual, it was a dinner?
MC:
It was an annual dinner. Yeah.
SK:
I see. They invited like the city council, and just some attorneys,
and then like-
MC:
Yeah, there was a lot of local politicos there, and stuff.
SK:
I see.
MC:
That's one of the things that I think that we had a little more
trouble getting that, versus Spanish, there was always a Spanish
interpreter in the court. For the Asians, it was sort of classified.
The Hispanics did the drugs, the Dominicans, and we had the
gangs and stuff.
SK:
Right. I see.
MC:
But it was somewhat of an issue, because one day they were a
victim, particularly in the young kids, and one day they were a
defendant. I remember sitting at a table once with a group of
attorneys, trying to figure out who didn't have a conflict with this
one, because we had represented this one before because they were
a victim this time because of the clashes.
Page 30 of 35
�UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, 2019-ONGOING
UML 17
Maryellen Cuthbert, Oral History #19.01
SK:
I see. Because of the interconnectedness of the community.
MC:
Mm-hmm [affirmative]. But we see a lot more businesses. Not just
the smaller... Like there was one small grocery store, and that was
it.
SK:
Right.
MC:
Now there's-
SK:
There's Cambodia Town, and restaurants everywhere. Right.
MC:
Right, so that's really nice.
SK:
Yeah.
MC:
Was this the kind of stuff you were looking for?
SK:
Yeah. This was fantastic. This was great. We wanted to get the
perspective of someone who had worked with the community,
particularly with the youth.
MC:
It was a struggle, because of the language, and the cultural
differences, and the mistrust, and you're dealing with the trauma
that they all went through in terms of government authorities,
whereas other groups didn't go through that trauma to get there.
Then being pegged.
SK:
For those issues, like the mistrust, and the kind of dealing with the
second generation trauma, do you see... Or, let me put it this way.
Would you say that your Southeast Asian clients now are about the
same number, or fewer?
MC: [01:15:04]
Fewer.
SK:
Fewer.
MC:
Fewer.
SK:
The kinds of issues that you're seeing versus particularly the '80s
and '90sPage 31 of 35
�UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, 2019-ONGOING
UML 17
Maryellen Cuthbert, Oral History #19.01
MC:
The kind of issues we're seeing now are the same kind of issues
we're seeing across the board with depressed teenagers not feeling
like they fit in their school, or not going to school, disrespecting
parents, that kind of stuff. Being on the run, not coming home,
getting into fights.
SK:
Right. In some ways, there are those issues of sort of being a
second generation refugee, and being an ethnic minority. But in
some ways maybe seeing them more becoming like normal
American juveniles of various ethnic backgrounds.
MC:
They are, but then I still think they're ... What's interesting is these
kids, I don't ask so much, "Where were you born?" Because that's
my nice question not to say to an immigrant, "Where were you
born?" I say, "I want to start from the beginning." They're, "Okay.
I don't have an immigration issue." But I'm not sure they know the
stories.
SK:
Right.
MC:
That they really know all the stories.
SK:
Yes, actually when we met, first found this archive, it was the
older generation saying that they were worried that the younger
generations didn't know about the culture, but also didn't know
about the stories of being a refugee, the refugee camps, but then
also early resettlement, and the struggles of those times, because
people don't want to talk about it.
MC:
Right. That's why we call it Irish lace curtain. It's like, okay I'm
done with that.
SK:
Yes.
MC:
To some degree, I get that. But, also, to not forget, somebody did a
film that was on PBS. I saw it. Who had gone back, that was just,
brought it home. Brought it home.
SK:
Was it Lost Child?
MC:
Was it? The name of it. It was... I'm trying to think. I think UMass
Lowell was part of the project. I can't remember what the name of
Page 32 of 35
�UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, 2019-ONGOING
UML 17
Maryellen Cuthbert, Oral History #19.01
it, but it went through kind of history of Pol Pot, the history of
Cambodia, and went to numbers of the temples. Are you familiar
with that film?
SK:
There's a couple of films it could be, so I'm not sure. It could be
Monkey Dance or Lost Child.
MC:
Monkey Dance maybe sounds like ... Sounds either that or because
I've seen the Monkey Dance and that is so fascinating. Fascinating.
SK:
Is there anything else that we haven't had a chance to talk about or
cover? Anything that sticks out in your mind?
MC:
One of the things, this is really kind of funny. But when I went to
the home, as much as I thought there was some distress. But when
I got to the end of a family or working with a family, very often I
was invited for a meal.
SK:
Yeah.
MC:
"I want to cook for you," whatever. So I had curry. I remember
sitting on the floor in one apartment, and it was like a plastic
tablecloth, and she was like macheteing the chicken, and we did
the curry. I was like, "I'm going to be here all night doing curry
from start to finish."
SK:
Wow.
MC:
But she wanted to teach me how to make curry. But it wasn't
unusual that when I went, versus most other places I'll say, "Okay,
I'll bring a pizza." You know, when I'm going to see with a kid I
told you food with teenage boys. I try to do that, "Okay, I'll bring a
pizza," or something. That's kind of a modernization now that they
do that, but they're like, "Oh, I want to cook for you. That was
always something that was very interesting to me.
SK:
Right.
MC:
Just as a comparison, I grew up Catholic and I often though,
"Okay, stand up. Sit down. Say this prayer," whatever, and
everything. That was it. I didn't agree with everything they did.
But, in going to Taiwan with my boyfriend and the temples, and
Page 33 of 35
�UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, 2019-ONGOING
UML 17
Maryellen Cuthbert, Oral History #19.01
seeing how they were much part of the life. You stopped in, and
you could be blessed by it. Then you had an issue, you went to this
temple. You prayed to that. You just threw it down. You brought
fruit. It wasn't money. Things like that. Then, his family even had a
temple. There are sayings about how to live your life. Not, "You've
got to honor God. You've got to honor God." It's, "This is how a
good man or woman lives."
SK: [01:20:06]
Right.
MC:
So, I was looking for that. I started looking for that in Cambodian
religion and stuff, and I didn't trip into it until I recently had a
client that had a lot of tattoos. They were prayer, and they were
sayings on him, because I bring makeup, because people still don't
understand to cover tattoos when I'm trying cases.
SK:
Right.
MC:
But, they don't talk about religion.
SK:
Right.
MC:
At all.
SK:
Right. The temples are such a big part of life for most Cambodians
and Southeast Asians. I was raised Presbyterian. If you don't know
about the Buddhist temples, and how much of a part of everyday
life they are, you don't, until someone starts telling you.
MC:
I understood they were a big part of their life, but I wasn't seeing
them like you've seen some of the other Asian homes will have
something, and I didn't know whether sometimes when you're
oppressed, and you've fallen away, or whatever. That was one
aspect that I hadn't tripped into versus other Asian homes.
SK:
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Having the kind of like shrines and things
like that. It was less visible in the houses you visited.
MC:
Very often in the Cambodian homes, you see the big colorful
picture of I think the matriarch or whatever dressed, and they look
so regal or whatever. You'd see those on the wall.
Page 34 of 35
�UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
SOUTHEAST ASIAN DIGITAL ARCHIVE
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT, 2019-ONGOING
UML 17
Maryellen Cuthbert, Oral History #19.01
SK:
Right.
MC:
That was interesting to me.
SK:
Even though that there was an initial mistrust, or maybe it was
difficult to communicate, but that there was a sense, especially for
people wanting to cook for you, that there was a sense that people
were very welcoming, and they wanted to sort of show gratitude
for your attempts to help them.
MC:
And then more so then any other. I'm telling, you had mothers who
couldn't speak English, who would get on that phone, and try to
make an appointment, and you're like, "Oh my God."
SK:
Right.
MC:
That was the group that did that, despite the fact there was that
initial mistrust.
SK:
Right.
MC:
Anyways, I can't wait to see this, because it is fascinating. It starts
horrific, but it's moving towards a different.
SK:
Great. Thank you so much.
MC:
All right.
SK:
Let me see. I want to make sure I do this right.
Interview ends
Page 35 of 35
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Digital Archive Oral History Project, 2019-Ongoing
Relation
A related resource
<span>The collection draft finding aid, </span><a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml17" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml17</a><span>.</span>
The oral history project page, <a href="https://www.uml.edu/Research/SEA-digital-archive/oral-histories.aspx" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://www.uml.edu/Research/SEA-digital-archive/oral-histories.aspx</a>.
Description
An account of the resource
This collection is currently in progress and information will be updated as it becomes available. <br /><br />Read more about the project: <a href="https://www.uml.edu/Research/SEA-digital-archive/oral-histories.aspx" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://www.uml.edu/Research/SEA-digital-archive/oral-histories.aspx</a><br /><br />Part of the collection is accessible on this site. <br /><br />Oral history interviews include: <br /><br /><strong>Maryellen Cuthbert, April 2019, Oral History #19.01</strong> <br />An oral history interview with Maryellen Cuthbert and interviewer Sue J. Kim. Since the mid-1980s, Cuthbert has been a private defense attorney working in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area. In this oral history, Cuthbert shares information about her training as a lawyer and reflects on various cases she’s worked with related to Southeast Asian communities. <strong>Content warning: Mentions of weapons, abuse, assaults, and violent situations.</strong> <br /><br /><strong>Thel Sar, April 2019, Oral History #19.02</strong> <br />An oral history interview with Thel Sar and interviewer Sue J. Kim. In this oral history, Sar talks about his early life: living through the Khmer Rouge, resettling in the United States, and his education; his career trajectory: working at the Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association, working at the Massachusetts Department of Youth Services, and becoming one of the earliest probation officers of Cambodian descent at Lowell District Court; his other community activities; and his family. <br /><br /><strong>Sivaing Suos, August 2019, Oral History #19.05</strong><br />An oral history <span>interview with Sivaing Suos and interviewer Tyler Sar. In this oral history, Suos talks about her early life in Cambodia and immigrating to the U.S., her experiences pursuing education and holding various jobs, including working in the mental health field and with families experiencing domestic violence, and her family.<br /><br /><strong>Niem Nay-kret, September 2019, Oral History #19.06</strong><br />An oral history interview with Niem Nay-kret and interviewer Sue J. Kim. In this oral history, Nay-kret talks about her early life in Cambodia and during the Khmer Rouge and her experiences holding various jobs in the U.S. related to healthcare, including prenatal care, mental health, and more.</span><br /><br />-------------------------- <br />SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Chornai Pech and Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Digital Archive Oral History Project, 2019-Ongoing. UML 17. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Maryellen Cuthbert oral history transcript, 2019
Subject
The topic of the resource
Crime
Lawyers
Lowell (Mass.)
Oral history
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of an oral history interview with Maryellen Cuthbert and interviewer Sue J. Kim. Since the mid-1980s, Cuthbert has been a private defense attorney working in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area. In this oral history, Cuthbert shares information about her training as a lawyer and reflects on various cases she’s worked with related to Southeast Asian communities. <br /><br /><strong>Content warning:</strong> Mentions of weapons, abuse, assaults, and violent situations.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cuthbert, Maryellen
Kim, Sue J.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Digital Archive Oral History Project
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-04-15
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
application/pdf; 35 p.
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
uml17_19.01_002
2010-2019
Angkor Dance Troupe
Cambodians
Documents
Laotians
Light of Cambodian Children
Lowell District Court
Lowell Superior Court
UTEC
Vietnamese
-
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asian Digital Archive Oral History Project, 2019-Ongoing
Relation
A related resource
<span>The collection draft finding aid, </span><a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml17" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml17</a><span>.</span>
The oral history project page, <a href="https://www.uml.edu/Research/SEA-digital-archive/oral-histories.aspx" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://www.uml.edu/Research/SEA-digital-archive/oral-histories.aspx</a>.
Description
An account of the resource
This collection is currently in progress and information will be updated as it becomes available. <br /><br />Read more about the project: <a href="https://www.uml.edu/Research/SEA-digital-archive/oral-histories.aspx" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://www.uml.edu/Research/SEA-digital-archive/oral-histories.aspx</a><br /><br />Part of the collection is accessible on this site. <br /><br />Oral history interviews include: <br /><br /><strong>Maryellen Cuthbert, April 2019, Oral History #19.01</strong> <br />An oral history interview with Maryellen Cuthbert and interviewer Sue J. Kim. Since the mid-1980s, Cuthbert has been a private defense attorney working in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area. In this oral history, Cuthbert shares information about her training as a lawyer and reflects on various cases she’s worked with related to Southeast Asian communities. <strong>Content warning: Mentions of weapons, abuse, assaults, and violent situations.</strong> <br /><br /><strong>Thel Sar, April 2019, Oral History #19.02</strong> <br />An oral history interview with Thel Sar and interviewer Sue J. Kim. In this oral history, Sar talks about his early life: living through the Khmer Rouge, resettling in the United States, and his education; his career trajectory: working at the Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association, working at the Massachusetts Department of Youth Services, and becoming one of the earliest probation officers of Cambodian descent at Lowell District Court; his other community activities; and his family. <br /><br /><strong>Sivaing Suos, August 2019, Oral History #19.05</strong><br />An oral history <span>interview with Sivaing Suos and interviewer Tyler Sar. In this oral history, Suos talks about her early life in Cambodia and immigrating to the U.S., her experiences pursuing education and holding various jobs, including working in the mental health field and with families experiencing domestic violence, and her family.<br /><br /><strong>Niem Nay-kret, September 2019, Oral History #19.06</strong><br />An oral history interview with Niem Nay-kret and interviewer Sue J. Kim. In this oral history, Nay-kret talks about her early life in Cambodia and during the Khmer Rouge and her experiences holding various jobs in the U.S. related to healthcare, including prenatal care, mental health, and more.</span><br /><br />-------------------------- <br />SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Chornai Pech and Monita Chea.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Digital Archive Oral History Project, 2019-Ongoing. UML 17. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Oral history
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Maryellen Cuthbert oral history audio recording, 2019
Subject
The topic of the resource
Crime
Lawyers
Lowell (Mass.)
Oral history
Description
An account of the resource
The audio recording of an oral history interview with <span class="TextRun SCXW2982357 BCX0" xml:lang="en-us" lang="en-us"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW2982357 BCX0">Maryellen Cuthbert and interviewer Sue J. Kim. Since the mid-1980s, Cuthbert has been a private defense attorney working in the Lowell, Massachusetts, area. <span class="TextRun SCXW111511619 BCX0" xml:lang="en-us" lang="en-us"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW111511619 BCX0">In this oral history, Cuthbert shares information about her training as a lawyer and reflects on various cases she’s worked with<span> </span></span></span><span class="TextRun SCXW111511619 BCX0" xml:lang="en-us" lang="en-us"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW111511619 BCX0">related to</span></span><span class="TextRun SCXW111511619 BCX0" xml:lang="en-us" lang="en-us"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW111511619 BCX0"> Southeast Asian communities.</span></span></span></span><br /><br /><strong>Content warning:</strong> Mentions of weapons, abuse, assaults, and violent situations.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cuthbert, Maryellen
Kim, Sue J.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Southeast Asian Digital Archive Oral History Project
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-04-15
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
1 audio recording; 01:22:47
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
uml17_19.01_001
2010-2019
Angkor Dance Troupe
Cambodians
Laotians
Light of Cambodian Children
Lowell District Court
Lowell Superior Court
Sound recordings
UTEC
Vietnamese
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PDF Text
Text
A NEW BEGINNING IN LOWELL
BY JAMES HIGGINS & JOAN ROSS
Foreword by Dith Pran Introduction by Hai B. Pho
����Southeast Asians
��Southeast Asians
A NEW BEGINNING IN LOWELL
BY JAMES HIGGINS & JOAN ROSS
PHOTOGRAPHS BY JAMES HIGGINS
Foreword by Dith Pran Introduction by Hai B. Pho
M ILL TOWN GRA PHICS
�Published by:
Mill Town Graphics
P.O. Box 2168
Highlands Station
Lowell, MA 01851
Copyright © 1986 Higgins & Ross
The histories that begin the Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese sections
are excerpted from Peoples and Cultures of Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam . Reprinted
with the permission of the Center for Applied Linguistics.
The poem "Yaws" © 1986 George Chigas. Reprinted by permission of the
author.
The Introduction is drawn from a 1983 audio-visual presentation of the Southeast Asian Program, Fitchburg Ethnic Heritage Program Series, sponsored
by the Fitchburg Public Library with Dr. Gunther Hoos, Chairman of the
Communication/Media Department at Fitchburg State College as Director
and Dr. Hai B. Pho as Humanities Scholar.
All rights reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced in any form
or by any electronic or mechanical means including information storage and
retrieval systems without the written permission of the publisher except in
the case of brief excerpts for use in critical articles or reviews.
Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 86-62068
ISBN 0-914613-04-9
Produced in conjunction with the Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association
of Greater Lowell, Inc.
Project Coordination by Carol Keirstead
Book design by Joan Ross
Printed by Mercantile Printing Company
Typeset by Typographix, Inc.
Translation/Calligraphy:
Cambodian by S. Say
Laotian by Sompheth Phothisen
Vietnamese by Tran Kirn Lan
Manufactured in the United States of America
�ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
AUTHORS' NOTE
First and foremost we thank all of those whose words and pictures
appear in this book.
The quotations in this book have been written as accurately as
possible in order to preserve the authenticity of the speakers'
voices. In many cases the English is ungrammatical, however this
in itself is telling - learning a new language is a great challenge.
The captions and quotations are, for the most part, said by or
about the subject photographed. We have not attributed the statements out of respect for the privacy of those who helped us create
this book.
We thank Theresa Theobald and the Cambodian Mutual Assistance
Association of Greater Lowell for the organizational support needed
to produce this book.
Carol Keirstead, project coordinator, has been a valuable link to the
Southeast Asian community, where she is so well respected.
We thank the following people and organizations: Narin Sao, George
and Chanthy Chigas, Heng Bun Chea, Sopheap Kuth, Michael Ben
Ho, Joan Gendron, Leslie Yauckoes and all our friends at the Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association; Silvia Sangiolo, Steve Lewis,
Khamsone Silavong, and the Laotian MAA; and Mr. Ong and Mr.
Gia from the Vietnamese MAA . We also wish to thank the following :
Reverend Steven Stager, Kim Jaynes, and members of the Eliot
Presbyterian Church; Vera Godley and the Lowell Ethnic Covenant;
Lydia Mattei, Kathi and Larry Flynn, and the staff at the International Institute; Frank Dalphond and the Merrimack Valley Vietnam
Veterans Organization; Jim Myers - Site Manager, Nate Kinnon
and Sandy Jolin at Digital, Wilmington, MA; Arthur Robbins and
the Lowell Hilton; Marilyn DeAngelis of Channel 56, Boston; Daniel
Lam from the Office of Refugee Resettlement; Joe Antonuccio,
Thoeun Thou, Evelyn Desmarais, Jim Doyle, Carol Merrian, Brian
Dunigan, Kang Song, and Lan Pho.
We gratefully acknowledge the special editorial support we received
from Paul Marion, Cultural Affairs Director, Lowell Historic Preservation Commission, who even walked our dog when things got crazy.
We appreciate the special advice and assistance we received from
Maude Salinger.
We thank Christine Reynolds for her design help.
A special thanks to our three translators: S.Say, Sompheth Phothisen,
and Tran Kim Lan .
Funding for this project was provided by :
rrrth
in
&P1:-'
M ass:1
chusc1ts Founda tion
for t-lu 1 mi 1ics and
m
Publi c Po lic)'
Massachusetts Foundation for Humanities and Public Policy, New England
Telephone Company, Massachusetts Council on the Arts and Humanities
Heritage Program, the Lowell Historic Preservation Commission - United
States Department of the Interior, and the Massachusetts Arts Lottery Council
as administered by the Lowell Arts Council.
Additional support was provided by the Massachusetts Arts Lottery Council as administered by the Chelmsford Arts Council, Community Teamwork, Inc., St. Jean Baptiste Parish, the Church of St. Michael, the First
Bank, the Commonwealth Federal Savings Bank, the Union National
Bank, the Lowell Institute for Savings, and the Bank of Boston .
The Foreword, Introduction Summary, captions, and quotations
are translated into the languages of the Cambodians, Laotians,
and Vietnamese in order to make the book accessible to the
Southeast Asian community.
This book represents almost two years of work with the Southeast
Asian peoples of Lowell. Our respect for them is great - the
friendships made forever rewarding.
J.H. and J.R.
1965, it seems so long ago ... sitting in high school class,
Beatles music playing in my head, and a knot in my
stomach, wondering if I would be called on for an answer.
While on the other side of the world dark clouds were
gathering, clouds that would soon be heading this way.
Decisions being made at the Gulf of Tonkin by people far
removed from Mr. Hogan , my sleepy history teacher.
J.H.
��FOREWORD
by Dith Pran
The plight of refugees is a universal and historic story.
While trapped inside communist Cambodia for four and
one half years, I vowed that when I reached freedom I
would bring my message to the world. My story, as
shown in the film "The Killing Fields," is not just my
story. It is the story of refugees throughout the world.
The Southeast Asian refugees, most of whom were
forced through hardships of war to come to the U.S.A. ,
are now adjusting to life in a new world . These Cambodian, Laotian, and Vietnamese people have suffered
for years. When the war was over in 1975, an internal
holocaust within the Southeast Asian countries con-.
tinued. The survivors fled their country because they
could not live under the communist regime where
they had little food and no freedom.
With the help of volunteer agencies and religious
organizations, these refugees are being taken care of
and are learning to adapt to the language, customs,
and life in their new world. I applaud the American
people because they have a tradition of helping the
suffering people.
I am now a citizen of the United States and I am
proud to be one. I have a home and a country; I am
no longer stateless. As Goodwill Ambassador to the
United Nations, I will continue to promote peace all
over the world. Please share with me my concern for all
the suffering refugees. I hope that someday the people
around the world would join together in creating a
peaceful global society. I am glad you care.
����INTRODUCTION
by Hai B. Pho
To many Americans whose grandparents first made the long journey to the United
States at the turn of the century, the memories of their hardship, struggle, and often
prejudicial treatment are likely wrapped in a mist of sentiment and nostalgia. Through
hard work, education, and sacrifice, they and their children were often rewarded by
a better life. Today, as part of the remaining legacy of the Vietnam War, another first
generation of immigrants is beginning its upward struggle. Lowell is fortunate to count
these courageous people as part of its cultural mosaic, and this book is an effort, at
least in part, to document the upward struggle of the newest group of immigrants,
the Southeast Asian refugees.
Southeast Asia encompasses the vast mainland area east of India and south of
China including Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam as well
as the two island nations of Indonesia and the Philippines. Historically, it has been
a crossroad of cultural activity. For more than 4000 years China, India, and Polynesia
have influenced the languages, customs, and institutions of the peoples of the area.
To these have been added the European Christian influences during the past 500
years resulting in a great diversity of life-style, culture, and language. The region
abounds in great beauty and cultural riches.
Geographically, Indochina reflects the mainland portion of Southeast Asia comprised
of Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. Politically, however,
the name Indochina applies only to Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, the countries
which were once known as French Indochina. The history of French Indochina
began in 1893 when the French first proclaimed the Indochinese Union after it had
colonized these three independent states. The Union ended in 1950 when separate
treaties were ratified, recognizing Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos as independent,
self-governing states within the French Union. After the Geneva Conference in 1954
and the dissolution of the French Union, the name Indochina no longer had any
political or constitutional meaning.
Indochina's more than 2000 years of independent existence has been frequently
disrupted by series of border disputes, wars of succession, invasions, and colonizations. Since World War II, after all the great ideologies such as capitalism, communism,
and nationalism had swept across the Asian continent, the Indochinese peoples experienced widespread grassroots struggles for independence from the French and
the ensuing internecine warfare.
Following the decisive loss by the French to Ho Chi Minh's guerrillas at the battle
of Dien Bien Phu in 1954, the Geneva Accords was signed which gave international
recognition of independence and unity to Cambodia and Laos, but divided Vietnam
into two portions with an arbitrary line along the 17th parallel. It also left Ngo Dinh
11
�Diem's South Vietnam in a highly vulnerable position to North Vietnam's battle hardened guerrilla armed forces, the People's Liberation Army. It was after this Geneva
Conference that the United States became directly and more deeply involved in
the region.
Speaking in 1955, at a meeting of the American Friends of Vietnam Association
in New York, Senator John F. Kennedy, then a presidential hopeful for the 1956
election, declared:
Vietnam represents the cornerstone of the free world in Southeast Asia,
the keystone of the arch, the finger in the dike. . . .
Vietnam represents a proving ground of democracy in Asia. . . . Vietnam
represents the alternative to Communist dictatorship. . . . The U.S. is
directly responsible for this experiment. . . . We cannot afford to permit
that experiment to fail . . . .
If we are not the parents of little Vietnam, then surely we are the godparents. We presided at its birth, we gave assistance to its life, we have
helped to shape its future . . .. And if it falls victim to any of the perils
that threaten its existence - Communism, political anarchy, poverty, and
the rest - then the U.S., with some justification, will be held responsible.
So, not willing to allow the North Vietnamese Communists to unify the country
either by political maneuver or by force, President Eisenhower authorized an expansion of U.S. economic and military aid to South Vietnam. The battlefields in South
Vietnam were then defined in Cold War theories and principles. South Vietnamese
people thus became freedom fighters and the 17th parallel became the frontier of
the Free World.
Initially, small teams of U.S. military advisors were sent to Vietnam. At first, they
were limited to a training role which was later changed to field advisors restricted
to a "fire when fired upon" rule. This unrealistic dictum was largely ignored by the
Americans and they took active part in skirmishes against the Communist-led front
in the South known as the National Liberation Movement Front or the Vietcong.
America went to Vietnam scarcely guessing the intricacy and pattern of ensuing
events. The War rapidly escalated shortly after the assassination first of Diem then
of Kennedy in November, 1963, and less than a year later President Johnson committed vast sums of AID money and tens of thousands of draftees into the war. In
the South, a succession of generals failed to unify and mobilize the public will to
defeat the Vietcong and the war dragged on. Like the French, the Americans were
suddenly bogged down in a war that seemed unending. Finally, after tremendous
resistance in America to the continuation and expansion of the war, the new strategy
became Vietnamization. Without defeating the Vietcong, America began to withdraw,
transferring all fighting responsibility to the South Vietnamese.
The failure of the U.S. to live by its commitments to support South Vietnam against
the North during the post-1973 Paris Peace Agreement period subsequently led to
12
�the defeat of the South by the North Vietnamese forces on April 30, 1975. Thus, the
last American presence that many South Vietnamese saw was the U.S. helicopters
leaving the American Embassy in Saigon.
Less than two weeks before the capture of Saigon, Communist forces had seized
control of Phnom Penh, the capital of Cambodia. But after four years of genocidal
ruthlessness by Cambodian Premier Pol Pot, supported by the People's Republic of
China, the Vietnamese Communist Army rolled into Cambodia and engaged the
savage Khmer Rouge. Vietnam ultimately installed Heng Samrin as a new Cambodian Premier. Laos too came under complete control of Vietnam's Communist ally,
the Pathet Lao in December, 1975.
Since the middle of 1975, the great question in Indochina has not been freedom,
but survival for those who hadn't given their loyalty to the Communist forces. Thus,
after the Communist takeover more than 1.5 million people had escaped the new
Regimes and started a search for a new beginning. Some fled for fear of reprisal. Some
were pushed out because they were dissidents. Some, like the ethnic Chinese, were
forcefully evacuated. And some left in search of freedom.
The Vietnamese exodus took place in three phases. The first came after the fall
of the Saigon government in April, 1975. In only three months over 130,000 Vietnamese
refugees entered the United States. Vietnamese who had worked for the U.S. government as well as members of their families were evacuated along with the officials of
the South Vietnamese government. Phase two refugees left Vietnam for a number of
reasons including the steady nationalization of the private sector, the erosion of personal freedom, and the establishment of reeducation camps, actually, concentration
camps. When registration for these camps began, many took small crafts that were
readily available and headed for ports in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Singapore. Of all who left by boat during this time, more than half never made it to their
destination. The Vietnamese dead may total 400,000. The phase three exodus began
in 1978. This phase was characterized by the forcible eviction of Vietnam's ethnic
Chinese population. No transportation was provided and they too were forced to
leave on any available vessel. A conservative estimate was that between 30,000 and
50,000 persons drowned each month from May to July, 1979.
In 1975 the Communist Pathet Lao took total control over the Laotian government.
This also caused a massive exodus of many anticommunist Laotians as well as the
Hmong people of Laos. The Hmong had worked closely for 15 years with the U.S.
military and were involved in the effort to rescue U.S. pilots who were shot down
over North Vietnam. During their 20 to 25 days walk from the hills of Laos to
Thailand, many Hmong were assaulted, abused, or killed. They slipped over the
Mekong at night aboard logs, make-shift rafts, or even lengths of bamboo underneath their arms to make a break for freedom. Once the survivors made it across
the river to Thailand, many were placed into jails and ultimately into Thai camps.
When Pol Pot ruled Cambodia, only a trickle of refugees escaped across the
Thai border with unbelievable tales of horror. It was after the defeat of the Khmer
13
�Rouge by the invading Vietnamese forces that a flood of Cambodians spilled into
Thailand. While a complete story of this modern day genocide may never be told,
it was estimated that over three million, or nearly half of the Cambodian population, died at the hands of the Khmer Rouge. Anyone found to have some association with the West was summarily executed. The urban population, including the
old and the sick in hospitals, was forced to march to communal labor camps in
remote jungle bases. Infractions of the harsh, inhuman rules were punishable by
death. Food shortage was rampant and, in the fall of 1978, famine threatened the
survival of the entire country. The plight of the Cambodians attracted worldwide
attention.
The Indochinese refugee situation became a major international issue in 1979.
Countries of first asylum sometimes refused to accept anymore refugees. International resettlement efforts were slow and bound up in red tape as well as politics.
The July, 1979 Geneva Refugee Conference acknowledged an important principle.
Refugee assistance should be considered an international responsibility. As a result
of this conference, resettlements were doubled. Another development at Geneva
was the Philippine Government's offer to provide a site for a facility which would
serve as a refugee processing center. The U.S. strongly supported the establishment
of such a site as a means of relieving the pressure on the countries of first- asylum
and thereby encouraged them to continue to accept all new arrivals. From these camps
of first asylum in Thailand, Malaysia, and Hong Kong, the refugees were eventually
processed and resettled in many parts of the world including the U.S.
Many regulations had been written to facilitate the resettlement of Indochinese
refugees into the U.S., however, it was the enactment of the Refugee Act of 1980
which helped to speed up the resettlement of Indochinese refugees throughout the
United States. This law which defined a refugee as any person who is unable or
unwilling to return to his/her country ''because of persecution or a well-founded
fear of persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion," established the Federal Office of Refugee
Resettlement and enabled the government to raise more funds for refugee reception and placement, cash and medical assistance, and language skills training as
well as employment services. Refugee resettlement also increased in Massachusetts
as a result of the Dukakis Administration's leadership with prominent citizens
advocating for speedier family reunifications and less restrictive regulations for
persecuted Cambodian applicants. The Refugee State Plan was extensively revised
to facilitate access to state programs and services by refugees with linguistic and
cultural barriers. Supplemental funds were appropriated by the State Legislature
to assist cities and towns which received a high number of new immigrants and
refugees.
Nationwide, the refugee resettlement program was carried out by eleven U.S. volunteer agencies including among others the American Council for Nationalities Service,
the American Fund For Czechoslovak Refugees, the Buddhist Council for Refugee
14
�Rescue and Resettlement, and the U.S. Catholic Conference. These agencies, under contract to the government, work to find individual or group sponsors who can assume
responsibility for the refugee family. It was through such sponsorship that refugees
from Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos found their way to Lowell. The sponsors, sometimes organized through churches and sometimes by the agencies themselves, played
an important role for the new residents. Initially, they provided food, shelter, and
clothing for the arriving family. Later, they assisted in finding employment, enrolling the children in schools, and helping the immigrants to understand and cope
with the American customs. Through informal sponsorship duties, the sponsors
often became close friends of the families and provided much needed personal
support and encouragement during difficult times.
In Lowell, the Indochinese refugees were mostly received and placed by the American Fund for Czechoslovak Refugees and the American Council for Nationalities
Service. They were also helped to resettle by local churches as well as the Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association (MAA), the Laotian MAA, the Vietnamese MAA,
and the International Institute of Lowell. These organizations are active in finding
sponsors for new refugees as well as in providing job development and language
training. Agency people continue to assist the new immigrants in their adjustment
to life in the new country.
In some ways, particularly with sponsorship and the state and federal governments
taking a pro-active role, it is now easier for the new immigrants to assimilate into
the American way of life especially when compared to the settlers at the turn of the
century. Some problems, however, have not changed, such as the need to acquire the
English language so that economic opportunities may be realized, the difficulty of
finding employment during hard economic times, and of course, the problems of prejudice and suspicion. But as other immigrant groups before them, the Indochinese
are ambitious, hard working, and greatly value education. These characteristics have
been and continue to be the classic ingredients of American upward mobility. The
earliest Indochinese refugees settled in Lowell only ten years ago. But many have
already succeeded in improving their own economic situations. Families have become
home-owners and have acquired other material goods. The high schools are regularly
graduating sons and daughters of Indochinese immigrants. Some are now enrolled
in colleges. Others are already working as technicians and engineers in high tech industries. And of course, most members of the Indochinese community are looking
forward to receiving American citizenship papers. Although assimilation into American ways is important, the Indochinese immigrants greatly value their cultural traditions
and keep them alive during celebrations and festivals throughout the year.
The first generation of Indochinese refugees can never forget the horror of war
and persecution that expelled them from their own countries or the Americans
who welcomed them and brought them here. But like other ethnic groups before
them, they are busy preparing a secure and stable future for themselves and for
their children in a new land.
15
�16
�17
�Gulf of
Thailand
KEY
INDOCHINA
~ Refugee
Escape Routes
I Refugee Camps
�The recorded history of Cambodia dates back to the first
century A.O., when it was known as Funan (100-500 A.O.).
This was followed by the Angkor period which lasted until
1432. It was a period of great accomplishments in culture,
arts and architecture. At its peak, the empire extended from
the Annamite Chain in present-day southern Vietnam to the
Gulf of Thailand . The temples at Angkor were erected during this period, which has been described as the height of
Cambodian domination in Southeast Asia.
At the end of the 13th century, the empire disintegrated
into small kingdoms often ruled by Thai vassals. The struggle
for territory between the Thais, Cambodians and Vietnamese
has continued to the present . Cambodia became a French
protectorate in 1864, and achieved complete independence
under the leadership of Prince Norodom Sihanouk after the
1954 Geneva Conference.
In 1970, Sihanouk was overthrown by his Prime Minister,
General Lon-Nol. That same year, Cambodia was the target
of attacks from the spreading war in Vietnam. This spurred
the growth of the Khmer communist faction (Khmer Rouge),
which gained control of the country in 1975, under the
leadership of Pol Pot. In 1979, the Vietnamese communists
overran and occupied Cambodia, installing a government
headed by Heng Samrin. The Vietnamese communist occupation, along with the Pol Pot generated holocaust, caused
an increasing number of Khmer people to flee their homeland
and become refugees in Thailand. Some 8,000 Cambodians
who are here today in Lowell, are victims of this continuing
war and turmoil .
19
Cambodians
�Most Cambodian refugees wait
in the camps (holding centers)
in Thailand for one to five years
while arrangements are made
for their resettlement . Language
instruction and cultural orientation are then received at a processing center before leaving for
the United States. The Mom
family waited in the camps for
six years before they could leave.
After a twenty-five hour flight
from Bangkok, they arrived in
Boston where Ing Mom ' s sister
and niece (on left) were there
to meet them .
20
�21
�A newly arrived refugee family is
given a demonstration of a hair
dryer found in a donated box of
clothes and small appliances .
22
�23
�Keo Saray' s parents are still in a
camp on the Thai-Khmer border.
They are not recognized as refugees by the Thai government
or the U.S. government. They
are considered '' displaced persons." Their only choices are to
go back to communist Cambodia
or wait in the camp with the
hope that someday their status
will change .
24
�25
�Poeun is forty-two years old.
She's had ten babies but now
there are six - four of them
died during the Khmer Rouge
regime.
"In Cambodia there are lots
of trees - hammocks are very
common. It's so easy to 'string
it and swing it. ' "
26
�27
�"Last night I heard a tape with
the songs of my country. In my
mind I went back to my grandparents' farm where I walked
through fields of coconut and
orange trees and ate fresh pineapple. I felt like there's no place
like home ."
28
�29
�Bun Vong and a friend were driving on the Revere Beach Parkway
when they became involved in
a traffic dispute with another
vehicle . A fight started and Bun
Vong was knocked unconscious .
He died of brain damage eleven
days later. In the second of two
trials, one of his assailants was
convicted of manslaughter.
The press converged on Bun
Yong's widow as she left the
funeral home . There was a barrage of questions and then an
awkward silence as she began
to cry . . . the only other sounds
coming from the click and whirl
of cameras .
30
�31
��33
�Rom was a village leader in
Cambodia . When he started ESL
(English as a Second Language)
classes, he had a strong motivation to learn . He entered the
clerical program but became frustrated with the level of language
skills required . He would say,
" I can 't keep it in my head - my
brain is too old." After transferring to the electrical program
that offered more hands-on skills,
Rom made good progress.
" When I go to look for a job,
maybe I will bring this to show
and say to them 'this is my
certificate. ' "
34
�35
�Division of Employment Security
" When I tell them a job is
available they ask if any other
Cambodians work there. If I
say no, then they don't want
to go. If their own people are
working there they feel comfortable . They are away from
their own country and things
seem strange here ."
36
�37
�The Moore Street School opened
in January, 1986, to house the
rapidly increasing population of
Cambodian students. The school,
segregated until June, 1986, is an
example of the emergency conditions facing public institutions
that deal with the Southeast
Asian refugees .
38
�39
�"12 Sisters" is a Cambodian folk
story that has been handed down
from generation to generation
and carried to Lowell by the
refugees . The film was shown
at St. Patrick's Church with a
translator for the English speaking viewers .
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40
c1,c,1; ck
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.
�41
�" Under communist regime we
lost more than three million
people. We lost everything all of our culture which took
more than 1000 years to build,
and all of our trust for each
other. We only trusted the
Buddhist monk. Only the Buddhist religion can rebuild our
culture."
42
�43
�The day came for celebrating
the opening of the new Trairatanaram Temple, which had once
been a Knights of Columbus
Hall. Everyone dressed up everyone 's spirits soared. The
next day they found out that it
was illegal for Venerable Khon
Sao to stay there without an
occupancy permit. After contributing much time and hard
earned money, the permit was
finally granted .
"In Cambodia if you want to
build a house or a temple and
live there, you go out and cut
away some bamboo, drag it to
where you want to build it, and
move in."
44
�45
�"An American man come two
times to our house and ask me
if he can have my son to be his
son. He say he will give him
everything he need and send
him to college. I have one son
- I don' t give to somebody. I'm
his mother - he 's a good boy
and I love him too."
46
�47
�Many Southeast Asians became
Christians in the refugee camps
where there were missionary
nurses and workers . When we
asked Cheth if we could photograph his family with its newest
son, he wanted to make sure
that his pastor was included in
the photograph .
48
�49
�50
�51
�Formal education in Cambodia
stopped under Pol Pot's regime.
At thirty years old, Salay is
graduating from high school.
"I' m not really proud yet until
the next diploma - then I'm
born again . When I finish with
college, if God wants me to, I
would like to be a missionary .
That's why I try so hard to study.
I want to go back to help my
people - if not my people then
others who need help ."
52
�53
�" The main reason I buy a house
is so I can be independent. Now
we can welcome everyone here
without having complaints from
a landlord . My father-in-law ' s
friends live here too because
they have nowhere to go . We
all live together; it's Cambodian
custom to receive anyone that
needs a home ."
t.<
r-
9
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54
�55
�'When we fight in the Cambodian Army we believe the more
tattoos on the body, the more
protection in the war:'
56
�57
�L.<-
"My grandmother says 'if my
country is free, I want to go
back,' but we like it here . Even
if it's free, I don ' t think I go
back - I stay here ."
,
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cc. ....
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58
>>
�59
�I
Mother and child at home in
the U.S.A .
r Q..'Q._ ()
<f.JJ rr;;,~ -;:)>'HJ ,n r:seu1u t.fs r~:::I:.
tnt::x> ~= ,_!}~,n .
60
-1-iu· ~
· u
h
tvJ·
{;,(Jh
O L ?tk-
�61
�Phalik performs traditional Cambodian dances - her brother likes
the "moon walk" better.
~/<._--&,~~
ot;~
Vc,/-f¼ ::J~ f{lc,~
u/4 Wl? -~ -~
Gm fw• 'c ;
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I
·
~~
~ '' /vu;oh Sa.f.):_ ' MIL-_
1
62
�63
�mJ.J~:r~.u.d=~~C;jq~'-:Jr.,
Cambodian New Year Celebration
t. • .ui..J
64
.
�65
�The first wedding of an American
man and Cambodian woman
in Lowell.
"The priest gives the couple a
haircut as a symbol of cleanliness. The locks of hair will be
mixed in a bowl to symbolize
the sharing of the bride and
groom. The monks advise them
to use the plural, not singular,
when speaking in the house .
They should say we instead
of I."
66
�67
�YAWS*
A scratch was doom
if their village had it.
Without penicilin
it could hide in blood forever
burning holes through skin that won't close.
She said her mother put leaves on infected sores
to draw the tiny worms started by flies
far enough out to get at with toothpicks.
My experience doesn't even begin to touch this.
The closest it ever came
was the summer I got poison ivy
chipping out of rough to save par.
And when I ask her, she'll just shrug it off.
To her it's just something terrible that happened.
We even laugh when she tilts back on her heels
with fingers and toes spread
to show how they walked.
*A tropical condition caused by a bacteria, characterized by skin
lesions on faces, palms of hands and soles of feet .
68
�69
�The Lao people moved from the Yunnan area of China and
settled in the northern part of Laos in 658 A.O., eventually
spreading throughout the present-day areas of Laos and
Thailand . Many wars were fought among clans to gain domination. There were three major kingdoms in Laos by 1707. By
1779, the kingdoms were colonized by the King of Thailand.
Many unsuccessful attempts by the Lao to free themselves
from Thai domination followed . In 1893, France took control of Indochina and pressured the King of Thailand into
relinquishing some of the Lao territory. A treaty was signed
in 1907 dividing the Lao people into two nations, one under
French control, the other under Thai.
During World War II, Japan conquered Laos, pushing the
French out of the country. Its rule was short-lived, however,
and France regained control in 1946. This resulted in many
Lao leaders fleeing to Thailand to create a "Free Movement."
The Movement was successful in 1949, when Laos was given
greater independence by France, and many members of the
"Free Movement" returned to Laos and participated in the
70
�formation of the new government. Others, however, remained
in Thailand and founded a movement known as the "Pathet
Lao," led by Prince Souphanouvong. The Pathet Lao was
headquartered in northeastern Laos.
Subsequent years saw continuous power struggles between
various factions for control of the government. During this
time, in 1954, Laos achieved full independence. The power
struggles continued, and Prince Souphanouvong was arrested.
He later escaped to the jungle to join the Pathet Lao. A coalition government was formed in 1962, under the leadership
of Souvanna Phouma, to demonstrate solidarity. This government received aid from the United States. This support was
phased out, however, in 1973, when another coalition
government - between the communist Pathet Lao and the
Royal Lao Government - was being created. Communist
control was total by December 1975. The current exodus of
refugees from Laos began at that time, as those who resisted
communist control escaped the country. Some 2,000 Laotians
are here in Lowell today.
71
Laotians ·
�"There are several things that
bind all Southeast Asians: the
suffering they have experienced,
religion, and good food . When
Chanthip and I opened the restaurant we wanted to make sure
that the food was authentic . That
meant not worrying about the
Americans and what they would
think of the smells or the taste
of the food . We wanted to have
a congregating place for the
Asians - something that they
could call their own. "
......,
,
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:'
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72
--,"")
�73
�Somdeth has been in this country for less than two years. He
escaped from Laos by swimming
across the Mekong river at night
with a plastic bag he filled with
air to help keep him afloat. His
seven brothers and sisters and
parents remain in Laos .
"When I came to Lowell I went
to Adult Education classes for
ESL, and then to a special banking program at the Vocational
School. I feel very lucky to have
my job at the bank. The people
who come here always ask how
to pronounce my last name . They
want to know why I came over
here, but I have a hard time to
explain ."
74
�75
�0 Q
I
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A Lao/Cambodian wedding .
WV)
Neither bride nor groom speaks
the other' s language, although
they both speak a little English .
The bride's relative says " they
need an interpreter by day, but
not by night. "
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76
0
c.l,:nt.c.1,.e,~JJ9:1'? ''7)".UJ..J
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�"When I dance I feel like a thousand eyes are looking at me."
77
�'When we get to America my
sons grow faster. It's sports and
American food that make them
grow tall. They don't like Lao
food - they like McDonald's
and Papa Gino's and they
drink lots of Pepsi:'
78
�79
�80
�81
�, ft.i' l<f_ d,·o/ilM
IU/W) c1-u; ~ I :6-t; Il{_ (._
v~ do-,-:6 ~~
fedi Ouw-c Lao cf-e ... ~
~t)rf_ t1J ~ ~
~
Centuries of migration caused
the hill tribes of Northern Laos
to create a portable art. For
hundreds of years textile designs
have been passed down from
mother to daughter . This Hmong
tapestry, made in a refugee
camp, is an example of Pa'ndau
which means "Flower Cloth ."
C..0 /
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82
Va-<
fka._. .,
u:
�83
�0.
0.,..
The Pink and The Purple
f):JJ:::Si_,JJb
"We know the Lao music but we
like American better - it's the
beat I guess. We like groups like
Kiss, Dokken, Keel, and Motley
Criie. Right now we just play for
fun, but you never know . . . . "
H;::)~
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84
�85
�"My parents have a lot of kids,
they can't raise them all so we
have to separate and go to live
with different relatives. That way
we can have something to eat
growing up and we can go to
school instead of work in the
fields. I don' t know exactly
how many brothers and sisters
I have . When I was seventeen
I try to track them down and
I found two or three of them .
Then after sixteen years away
I meet my real mother again.
She cries and tells me she feels
very, very sorry but that it was
the best thing she could do .
When I come to this country my
sister try to help me out so she
wants one of my twins for her
own . I tell her I want to raise
all my kids. I don't want them
to separate. I want every kid
with me no matter where I go ."
86
�87
�"When my son was three he
got poison from lead paint and
took a lot of medicine . I move
to another apartment but now
I patch up all the holes in the
wall because I'm afraid for his
sister."
88
�89
�"We all share the bathroom.
There is no electricity - if we
close the door we can't see. "
90
�91
�"I leave my first job at 2 p .m.
and get home and pick up my
son from school. I feed my son
and daughter and when my wife
gets home from work, I leave
for my second job . Many times
I work overtime on Saturdays .
On Sundays we usually do the
shopping. "
92
�93
�" I have lots of problems here
- broken windows, the ceiling
broken down, toilet and sink
that don't work. Every time I
have a problem I call the landlord but nobody ever come. I
need a better place for her."
94
�95
�~1-'·a- Nj
'"t>"la;,
'1n Laos, the elderly spend their
time in the yard . The yard is
not grass but a large vegetable
garden that provides food for
the famil y. Now, she lives on
the third floor of a tenement
building. Below is a parking
lot. She speaks no English,
there is nowhere to go."
nef /JA,U ca/ ~a:_
ck'-cd
M-ue
Vdoh..
d:ii c//.,c, 'fr'e<-
c/40,. . ¾ J'?,- /!:a-~
~ f-ih Jdj -t/l._,J' '3 0,,,i'aw~.eu') j-.w"ci ' Mt
~- ~ alfk ;c-e-. .3a rtwy
~~
~- cf~~
~~
Offd;/, JJ
1.-
96
-h~i
,1,,.1._ vd
eo' c.A.o~ ),ac, ah.'-
�97
��99
�"Now that I'm a United States
citizen I feel more confident living
here . I feel different. Not only
my appearance is different, I feel
different inside. . . being one of
the people in this big country."
100
�101
�The ethnic Vietnamese are believed to be mainly descendants
of a Mongoloid race who spread southward through the
Red River delta. The Chinese conquered the area in the second century, B.C., and ruled for a thousand years.
After many revolts against China were attempted and failed
during that long period of domination, the Vietnamese finally
succeeded in regaining independence and founded the first
national dynasty in 938 A.O. Subsequent invasions from the
north were repelled, including the major one by the powerful Mongols in the late 13th century. In the 15th century,
China tried again to re-establish its rule but was defeated
by the Le dynasty after ten years of war.
Vietnam's sovereignty ended with the advent of French colonization which was achieved in 1883 and lasted for about
60 years. In 1940, the Japanese entered Vietnam with the
consent of the Vichy government. In March 1945, Japan overthrew the French authorities and granted independence to
Vietnam under Emperor Bao Dai, the last ruler of the Nguyen
dynasty. In August 1945, only a few days after Japan surrendered to the Allies, Bao Dai handed over the imperial seal to
Ho Chi Minh, who declared independence that September.
Negotiations with the French to implement this independence
102
failed, and the French-Indochina war began. It ended in 1954
at the battle of Dien Bien Phu, after eight years of enormous
casualties. The 1954 Geneva Accord divided Vietnam at the
17th parallel, placing the North under Ho Chi Minh and the
South under ex-Experor Bao Dai, now Chief of State, who
later lost control to his prime minister, Ngo Dinh Diem, in
a referendum.
After a few years of relative peace, the early 1960's were
marked by a steadily increasing penetration of South Vietnam
by Vietnamese communist guerrillas known as the Viet Cong.
Beginning in early 1965, the pace of the war accelerated
sharply. From being largely supportive and advisory, the
United States role increasingly became one of active combat,
with U.S. troops engaging in operations designed to search
out and destroy the guerrillas. During this period, the internal political situation in South Vietnam was in turmoil. After
the coup d'etat in November 1963, during which President
Ngo Dinh Diem was killed, rule was taken over by successive
military regimes. Corruption was a constant problem, and
the political unrest fueled Viet Cong efforts. Finally after
persistent peace talks and negotiations, a Peace Agreement
was signed in Paris on January 27, 1973.
�The Peace Agreement was intended to bring about a ceasefire throughout the country, the beginning of negotiations
between the two Vietnams toward a political settlement, and
the withdrawal of foreign military forces. All U.S. forces were
withdrawn within the stipulated 60-day period . While South
Vietnam lost the vital support of the United States and had
too little time to consolidate its own strength, North Vietnam
continued a massive infiltration of troops and military supplies.
As a result, the defense system in the South rapidly disintegrated, and Saigon finally fell into communist hands on
April 30, 1975, causing a massive and chaotic evacuation of
at least 130,000 people in only a few days.
The pacification, the unification, and the enactment of
economic and political policies by the victorious communist
authorities in Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos produced a
continuous stream of refugees to the first asylum countries
of Thailand, Malaysia, the Peoples Republic of China, Hong
Kong, and the Philippines. By the end of January, 1986 nearly
1.7 million people had fled their homelands. Of these, 781,000
have been resettled in the United States, 728,000 in other countries, and over 154,000 are still languishing in refugee camps.
As a result of the U.S. Refugee Resettlement Policy some
1,000 Vietnamese refugees have resettled in the Lowell area.
103
Vietnamese
�"Before my husband died he left
a portrait of himself dressed in
his traditional mandarin robe
and seated in the ceremonial
position. I am 88 years old now
and must prepare to die. I have
nothing to leave behind but this
portrait of me properly seated so
that after I am dead, it will be
placed on the family altar, next
to my husband's portrait for all
my children to remember us."
104
�105
�"' [} '-u"r-i/..
'1 work on a TV station in Vietnam singing and dancing. My
husband was a conductor in the
army and write patriotic songs.
When Saigon fell in 1975 he
have to escape. One day I'm
home cooking and I say 'Oh
my God, my husband not come
home.' We don't think we meet
again, but three years later I
receive a letter that he is safe in
America . We make a plan for
me to escape when my daughters are older. When I get to
Thailand they take everything I
have, my clothes . . . everything.
Some girls they grab and rape.
Thank God my daughters were
only five and six. It's terrible in
the camps. After five years we
meet in America . Now we have
two more kids. We live for our
kids - they must grow up right."
N{Av._
~ /4;;.._
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106
\, _(~ UL,~
�107
�IN
Khanhnguyen's brother and
sister escaped from Vietnam by
boat in 1979. Three years later,
resettlement in the United States
was arranged for Khanhnguyen
and his parents. Khanhnguyen
is now enrolled in the College
of Music at the University of
Lowell.
Uv,·
v-4.-
UUI.~
d<J..,uJ, ~ ~
3
A-Ao, //,£1 -N:vm
h o '1,_,
~
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~/rt
Jeu,,._ :J:..A_cu,J, I ~
V£tciJ:l ?Yee 4USc.,Aff
fef d 1 w -Jai. Mj'
h4
//-,0? ~ ~ ,{ 7::;entC..eo ~ c ~ ~ c
~ ~ ~ Lo we!/
d ~ k
d~
"When I first came to the University, I was very lonely and
depressed . It wasn 't easy for
me to make friends . The first
time I was to perform before
the school, I walked onto the
stage and back off again. I failed
because I was too nervous, I
could not cope." A month later
Khanhnguyen performed before
the school with his own improvised work . He received three
standing ovations.
;l-0;
.-a.ec,
~ ~
Ail CB c/oJ,J
-6-a~- C1,,;;;;,.
fo;
Vt,- +u},,;.__
/(l,,.,o 1 U-o-fo';
rltWJ ~ ({ ~ . ~
~ h~ ~~ -1~ ~ ,
d~ a'- Tw.1:t~ ... -lvi .teJx_
/,_a_
~ ~
,,(~
rua .
+ib'-" vao •/151 ~
!ITT ~J IN,~ c-fr,, ~
Jill'. "
108
~
-
�109
�Six days a week Dr. Tran drives
from his home in Connecticut
to his office in Lowell. He never
knows how many patients will
be waiting because appointments are not necessary.
"It's like a walk-in clinic here
- the people are used to it
that way. Back home they don't
make appointments because
people don't have telephones.
They like to keep it the same
way here."
110
�111
�"I believe nobody should work
for the first seven days of Tet
because it will bring bad luck
and hard life for the rest of the
year. I must prepare all these
special dishes in advance so
that at New Year all this food
will be offered to my Creator,
to the souls of the family ancestors who are expected to visit
us, and to all my children and
grandchildren who must come
to visit me and wish me a happy
long life."
112
�113
�Vietnamese New Year (TET)
'' All other activities come to
a halt, every sorrow set aside
before midnight of New Year's
Eve. This is a time when some
people shoot firecrackers to welcome the New Year and others
quietly pray at pagodas and
temples ."
114
�115
��117
�International Beauty Salon
" Asian hair is very straight and
strong. The men love to have
their hair permed - they can
do more with it. They don ' t go
to American shops because many
cannot speak English . Besides
Vietnamese, I speak Lao and a
little Cambodian. They are so
happy that I can speak their
language . "
118
�119
�Job interviews in this country
can sometimes be difficult for
Asians. Their interviewing
skills come from a culture less
aggressive than our own. Phu's
American friends helped prepare
her to be interviewed for an
engineering position.
"After my interview at Digital,
I think I better wait for this job .
The people are friendly and
always help each other. At work
I'm very Americanized but I
don't lose my tradition . Within
the family I'm very Vietnamese."
120
�121
�John at home with fiancee.
In July, 1979, John and his older
brother escaped from Vietnam on
a twenty foot fishing boat. Late
at night, sixty-five men, women,
and children met on the shore
and swam one mile to the boat.
The younger children were
pushed on floats . Each person
paid the boat owner one bar of
gold . After seven days and nights
in rough waters, without food ,
they landed in the Philippines .
" After we buried one boy at
sea who died from starvation, I
wished that the boat would capsize so that I would die. . . then
I wouldn't have to be so afraid ."
t /.,<>l.
122
I
'I
~
/J - \.
0P--< - ··
;,>
�123
�"Look at him - see what a terrible life he' s had . He was a
major in the Saigon Army . Look
at him now ... I don' t believe
this ."
124
�125
�Memorial Day Parade
" These guys are our allies . We
fought side by side with them.
I said to myself - who' s more
of a Vietnam Veteran than the
Vietnamese?"
126
�127
�''When I was in the refugee
camps I light a candle in a bowl
and turn it upside down so the
smoke go on the inside of the
bowl. Then I use the black smoke
on the brush to paint. I did this
painting after I get to this country. It' s about the boat people
from my country who would
rather die on the sea than live
under communistic atheism. "
128
�129
�The Catholic Church has been a
source of friendship and support
for the Southeast Asian refugees ... and sometimes vice versa .
"I won' t need to look in the
mirror to see if the cut' s a good
one. If it's done out of love,
it' s good ."
130
�131
��JAMES HIGGINS and JOAN ROSS work as a
photo/design team on documentary, editorial, and
architectural projects. Their first book Lowell - A
Contemporary View, has been distributed both regionally and nationally. They are currently working on
a book documenting the cultural aspects of Ulster
and the Republic of Ireland. They make their
home, with three children, in North Chelmsford,
Massachusetts.
HAI B. PHO, Ph.D. , Project Humanities Scholar,
is an associate professor of Political Science at the
University of Lowell. He is a member of the Board
of Directors for the Indochinese Refugees Foundation and serves as a Co-chair on the Governor's
Advisory Council for Refugee Resettlement.
CAROL KEIRSTEAD, Project Coordinator, works
as the curriculum coordinator for the Southeast
Asian Bilingual Program in the Lowell Public
Schools. Ms. Keirstead holds a Master's degree
in Administration, Planning, and Policy and has
worked as an advocate for Southeast Asian
refugees in Lowell for over five years.
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Higgins, James (Jim). Lowell Books Collection, 1983-1997
Description
An account of the resource
The James Higgins book collection includes 2 copies each of 3 books related to Lowell and the Lowell area Cambodian and larger Southeast Asian communities. <br /><br />The collection is completely accessible on this site. <br /><br />View the collection finding aid for more information, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml7" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml7</a>.<br /><br />-------------------- <br />SEADA would like to thank the following individuals for their work in making this collection available online: Monita Chea, Julia Huynh, and Chornai Pech.
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Higgins, James (Jim). Lowell Books Collection, 1983-1997. UML 7. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml7" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml7</a>.
Text
A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Southeast Asians: A New Beginning in Lowell photobook, 1986
Subject
The topic of the resource
Refugees--Southeast Asia
Cambodian Americans
Laotian Americans
Vietnamese Americans
Black-and-white photography
Description
An account of the resource
A photography book designed and created by James Higgins and Joan Ross with a foreword written by Dith Pran and and introduction by Hai B. Pho. "Southeast Asians: A New Beginning in Lowell" highlights some members of the Cambodian, Laotian and Vietnamese community in Lowell, Massachussetts. Some photographs are accompanied by text translated into English, Khmer, Lao and Vietnamese.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Higgins, James
Ross, Joan
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Higgins, James (Jim). Lowell Books Collection
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Mill Town Graphics
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1986
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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140p.; 10.5 x 10.5
Language
A language of the resource
English
Khmer
Lao
Vietnamese
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
uml7_b01_f01_i001
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
1980-1989
Books
Cambodians
Laotians
Photobooks
Refugee resettlement
Vietnamese
-
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d6a58071ad98d704ff6305acd9c73610
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016. UML 4. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Description
An account of the resource
Four oral history interviews with former staff and board members of the Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc., an organization that helped resettle Southeast Asian refugees in the greater Lowell, Massachusetts area during the 1980s. Oral histories were conducted with Jacqueline (Fidler) Moloney, Carol Keirstead, Elise Martin, Hai Pho, and Lan Pho. <br /><br />View the collection finding aid for more information, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.<br /><br />The entire collection is accessible on this site.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lan Pho and Hai Pho oral history interview audio recording, 2016
Description
An account of the resource
The audio recording of an oral history with Lan Pho and Hai Pho on their experiences establishing and supporting the Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Other topics discussed their involvement helping refugee communities after the the IRF closed.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Pho, Lan T.
Pho, Hai B.
Connerty, Kale
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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2 audio recordings; 01:02:10 and 00:07:20
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
uml4_16.14_i004
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
Subject
The topic of the resource
Community organization
English language--Study and teaching
Lowell (Mass.)
Nonprofit organizations
Occupational training
Political refugees
Refugee families
Refugee issues
Refugees--Southeast Asia
Refugees--United States
Social service
Unemployed--Services for
Oral history
2010-2019
Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association
Cambodians
Indochinese Self-Help Program
Laotians
Lowell Lingerie Company
Lowell Public Schools
Mutual Assistance Associations
Sound recordings
Stouffer's Bedford Glen Hotel
The Acre
Vietnamese
Vietnamese Mutual Assistance Association
-
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PDF Text
Text
UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
CENTER FOR ASIAN AMERICAN STUDIES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
INFORMANT: LAN & HAI PHO
INTERVIEWER: KALE CONNERTY
DATE: October 5th, 2016
L=LAN
H=HAI
K=KALE
[Note: At the request of Lan and Hai Pho minor edits have been made to this transcript for clarification.
An unedited version of this transcript is available.]
H: Okay, why don’t you introduce yourself and then I’ll do it?
L: My name is Lan Pho. And my husband and I have participated in the resettlement of refugees from
Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam, into Massachusetts in general and in Lowell and the greater Lowell area
to be more specific since the late 70s.
H: My name is Hai Pho. I am a member of the initial establishment of the Indochinese Refugee
Foundation back in 1976. And with the participation and support of my wife Lan, and five other
members, we established what is known as the Indochinese Refugee Foundation Incorporated in 1977,
on January 27, 1977 by the Secretary of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Thank you.
K: So just to get started, what were the circumstances under which the IRF was started? Or how did
you decide to start it?
H: Okay, all right. The histories of immigration and refugees are quite different. The U.S. program for
immigrants started a long, long time ago, but I think in 1965, ‘66 there was a law by the Congress to
define immigration. And the status of refugees were not well defined then. So people that came
before 1975 were classified by law not as refugees but as immigrants. Immigrants came to better their
lives economically, socially. Refugees came as a place for protection because they were pushed out.
1
�So there’s a theory, there’s a pull and push theory. Immigrants are pulled into the U.S. for the
economic social betterment. Refugees were people whose lives were threatened and were pushed out
of their countries and they came for shelter, for protection, for survival. And so in 1975 at the end of
the Vietnam War some hundred and a hundred and thirty thousand refugees from Vietnam were
hosted in the U.S. for their survival, because they were pushed out by the Communist army victory in
South Vietnam. In 1980 the U.S. Congress established a law, the 1980 Refugee Act, that defined the
meaning of refugees and provided a systematic procedures and numbers for annual admission of
refugees into the US, the quota for Indochinese refugees to be resettled in the U.S. per year. And that
is the beginning as far as a statutory refugee definition is concerned.
As far as the Indochinese Refugee Foundation is concerned, we established it in 1977 because in 1975
some Vietnamese refugees just came to New England, to Boston, most of them with nothing but the
clothes on their back. So for the first year or so we were just trying to establish our life, re-establish
our life. And we do try to pull our community together. And we made an appeal on September 27,
1976 for Vietnamese and American friends and supporters to help us organize into a kind of a Mutual
Assistance Association. And that sort of launched the action to create an Indochinese Refugee
Foundation that was drafted. The Charter was drafted and then finally incorporated in the spring of,
January 27, 1977.
K: So going off of talking about the definition of refugees. Looking through the archives we see
documents that are trying to distinguish between political refugees and economic migrants. So were
there any difficulties, or controversies involved with trying to make that distinction? Or did you have
any problems?
H: There are a lot of difficulties. In most peoples’ mind immigrants come [here] to better themselves,
and they should not be dependent on anybody, particularly on public assistance. When refugees came
they had nothing with them. There was no preparation. There was no anticipation of self-sufficiency
at that particular point. In fact total lack of preparation. So from Southeast Asia, from Vietnam, Laos
and Cambodia, there are two phases. The first phase in 1975 to 1977, these people came from a very
advanced background, and so they can establish, re-establish themselves very fast, very well. In fact
there are a lot of studies that prove how successful that first phase of resettlement of refugees from
Vietnam at that time [was]. There’s a group of studies that was made [showing] there’s no impact on
the host country, on the United States, particularly with the initial U.S. policy of integration. In the
policy of integration of Indochinese refugees in 1975 there was an effort to disperse, meaning to
spread them out. How did they do that? By a hosting requirement, a requirement having a host, a
family host or a church, or an agency to host each family from Vietnam to settle in the U.S. Because of
that requirement, the Vietnamese who first came as refugees in 1975, ‘76 were spread out all across
the U.S. But – and in addition they were well, trained well, professional people, so with their
2
�background and skills they could find jobs, they could find housing on their own. They didn’t need to
depend on any help from agencies of the states or the federal government.
The phase of refugees that came from 1979, 1980 on were pushed out from Southeast Asia, from
Cambodia, from Vietnam because of the drastic, drastic, horrible, horrible violent policy of the regimes
in Southeast Asia. Those people were not prepared and they had to be dependent on public
assistance, and that created a lot of objections.
K: So – I’ll start with you Hai – what were your specific roles in the IRF, first as a member of the Board
of Directors?
H: Yes, I was fortunate to be educated, trained, get my Doctorate Degree at Boston University, teach
at UMass Lowell from 1968 on. So I have a well established root in Lowell. In fact I came to Lowell
some five, six years before anybody else was here, my wife and I, our family. And, in 1975 when the
first wave of Vietnamese refugees came, I was with my friend Doctor Nghia Nguyen, a physicist at
Draper Labs in Cambridge and we put together a group of leading Vietnamese refugees. They are
lawyers, they are engineers, they are scholars, and an American retiree from the State Department,
[unintelligible] to form the founding members group of the Indochinese Refugee Foundation to help to
provide the technical skill to help those who follow us who need some help to create a Mutual
Assistance Association. That is my role.
K: And what about your duties as the Coordinator for the Indochinese Self-Help Project?
H: Then three, four years later when the boat people from Vietnam and the Cambodian Refugees from
Cambodia who were sheltered on the Thailand borders, came. The State Department, because of
[continued need] to resettle Cambodians and Laotians, instead of dispersal they created a cluster
system, meaning they bring them as groups into different locations in the U.S. There were about five,
six clusters, one of which was the Lawrence/Lowell cluster. And each cluster, they bring about a
hundred families to the area, and these are supposed to receive not only assistance in resettlement,
but also to receive assistance in language skills, in employment training and job placement. So the
resettlement consisted of two phases. One is housing and (L: Language skills) language skills. No, that
is training, training in employment. ET, training, education and training. Okay. The first phase is
housing welfare resettlement, just to get them settled in a local community. The second phase is
Employment and Training. And because of the cluster system there was a high demand for
employment training in the Lawrence/Lowell area, [such] that the agencies, the local agencies that
provide the resettlement cannot handle it and do not have the staff, the skill to handle the education,
English as a Second Language, the job preparation and employment placement for them. So we sort of
see the need for it and find ways voluntarily to do it, but [there are] not enough resources available to
3
�us, because we are just resettling five years ago and it’s just not enough resources available to us. So
we call on the U.S Government, which at the time [it] is the State Department that is responsible for
resettlement to give us the funding. And so they did earmark some five million dollars to those selfhelp groups, mutual assistance groups, to apply. And if we did qualify they would give us the grant to
provide English as a Second Language, and orientation to resettle, and Employment and Training. So
that’s how I submit an application, because they sent out what is called a “Request for Proposal”
across the United States. And we are among the four or five Mutual Assistance Associations that
received that funding to provide Employment and Training here.
K: Was that the same as the Targeted Assistance Grants Program, or is that something different?
H: Separate.
K: Separate, okay. We won’t talk about that.
H: Target Assistance is different. (K: Okay) So that is the Self-Help Project from the Indochinese
Refugee Foundation.
K: Which was later renamed, years later, to the (--)
H: Employment Training.
K: Employment, yeah.
H: Yes, yes, because – well, before I jump into that. That is how the Mutual Assistance Association
transformed itself in this activity through the Self-Help Project because we believe that we can do it
just as well as anyone else. And in doing that we really make a special effort to find qualified
Vietnamese, qualified Cambodian, qualified Laotian refugees unlike many VOLAGs that relied on
American staffs. We screen ourselves to ask them to provide us staff for these services. The only ones
that we need are Americans who are skilled in teaching English as a Second Language, who are skilled
in running the businesses of Self-Help Project. So that’s how we recruited Miss Jacqueline [Fidler]
Moloney as the Project Director, and Miss Elise Martin as an English language teacher. But the rest of
the staff, and these are very important people, the Vietnamese social workers, the Cambodian social
works, Laotian social workers to go out and do the actual helping of refugee families that came to
Lowell.
K: Okay, I’ll move to Lan. Oh –
4
�H: Just one more step.
K: Okay, go ahead.
H: The first one hundred families in Lowell consist of about maybe four or five hundred people, mostly
children and women. There are very few men, okay, because as you can understand the men were
killed in the war or they run all over the place. So the fact that from 1979 to 1982 there’s a large
number of children that need to go to school, there’s quite a few women that need to get the health,
medical health, mental health and welfare, creates some kind of pressure on the community, but
because of the capabilities of these native social providers, workers, they did manage so well that their
reputation gets across the United States to the other clusters. And the problem with that is that it
creates what is known as the second migration. It creates the attraction for Cambodians, for Laotians,
from other clusters who are in South Carolina, who are in Louisiana, who are in Minnesota, who are in
Oregon, who are in California, to drift on their own, nobody brings them here, but on their own they
slowly migrated to Lowell. That increased the population several folds that nobody anticipated. No
one from the State Department, the Department of Health, Education and Welfare – in those days
HEW is also the one that provided the funding – and we did not anticipate that, definitely. We didn’t
know what’s happening there. So that creates a kind of pressure on the host, on the city of Lowell.
K: Were you able to get more funding from the state because of that influx?
H: No! There’s no (--) [Laughs]. That’s the problem. That’s the original problem that creates a lot of
pressure. That’s where my wife came into play.
K: Okay. So [addressing Lan] what were your duties as President of the IRF?
L: Well I immersed [myself in] an effort to relieve the community at large of number one, the
challenge of housing and feeding the refugees and their families. I realized [the need to] get them to
be self-sufficient. Get them to be able to communicate in English and give them an opportunity to
work and earn the bread for their family. I realized that if we don’t want to add any more burden to
the community then we have to seek help from the prospective employer to take part of the, to
provide you know, some limited English language capability and job training for their own employees.
So I went into different companies and appealed to them, that if they like to have good and faithful
employees, then they have to provide some extra services to their employees. For example, the
provision of on-the-job English training. So we came to the company at first learning the job ourselves
and what kind of English that the employees would need. And we developed a curriculum for job
related English training. And we also appealed to the company to provide at least one hour a day for
their employee who came from Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia to learn English on the job, and also to do
5
�show-and-tell on how to do the job, you know, more efficiently. And it turned out that the curriculum
that we helped to develop is very helpful. And the employers are very happy with it. The employees
are very excited about it. So I think all in all the placement of, you know, the refugees into entry level
jobs is not difficult at all. And we started out with one company at the time. And the first one in
Lowell is Lowell Lingerie, which is a textile company. And then we went into Billerica to get into a little
bit of a higher skilled job. At Lowell Lingerie it’s basically training stitchers, you know, who can work on
a sewing machine and do the sewing job. And when we brought the project to BASF, which is a
medical instrument manufacturing company – [H: Medical instruments.] –medical instruments
producing company, it worked out also very well. The job requirement was a bit higher than at Lowell
Lingerie. And it worked out fine. And then we brought it into Bedford with Bedford Glen Hotel and
Resort Center, to train housekeepers, and people in the food processing area. So these are examples
of the three companies lend a hand into the recruitment training maintaining their employees who
came from the Southeast Asian Community.
K: That’s great.
H: That explains the switches, the changes in name of this Self-Help Association, because the Self-Help
start with the resettlement mostly, but by 1982, ‘83, as you know, it split. The program changed name.
And the reason for that is that we’ve now set up the process of recruiting Cambodian, Laotian,
Vietnamese to be providers themselves, to be direct participants themselves. Now we manage to get
them into three separate identities. I don’t know if you realize Indochinese is an umbrella, broad
umbrella, but the fact that the Cambodian are to help themselves, the Vietnamese are to help
themselves, the Laotian are to help themselves, became a reality around 1982, ‘83 – that’s the turning
point. That’s when the Indochinese Refugee Foundation focused on Employment and Training.
K: Did [focusing on] that have anything to do with the struggling economy that was happening at the
time just right in the early 80s?
H: The economy actually is part of the issues, but at that time I think we mostly focused on providing
services. And when we applied for funding for the Mutual Assistance Association we were focusing
mainly at the beginning on resettlement, but by 1982, ‘83, the Employment and Training became very
important, critical because there’s pressure to place these people and get them out from dependency
on welfare. So maybe it played a role, but I don’t think that’s a major role. The major role is the
pressure put on the community, the host community, that means the Lowell inner city agencies, and
that coming to issue is education too, the children, schooling. And that’s where my wife again has to
do the advocacy with the help of city fathers. She can tell you about the effort to do that.
6
�L: I guess, you know, at that time, the practice of school desegregation started in the Lowell Public
Schools, because some educators believed that the Southeast Asian children should be integrated into
different schools rather than concentrated in the Acres area, you know, which is also in the heart of the
Lowell area.
H: Also that’s the low cost housing, that’s where the refugees kind of get stuck into. So the children,
you know, naturally are placed into the Acres school and they are all over, in the closet, sitting in the
hallways, etc. They even rented spaces from the YMCA and to house the children.
L: Wherever they can find space for the children, but mostly concentrated in the number schools in
the Acres area. And both the parents and the teachers are not happy about that. No, no, not just the
community, not just the students. So the school undertook a desegregation, it started out with busing
children across the school district rather than concentrated them in one area. At first the movement
or the practice was met with a lot of challenges from not just the community, but from the teachers
themselves. In addition, because parents in the Belvidere area of Lowell would not like to have refugee
children attending the same school with their children.
H: They fall behind and sort of drag the mainstream students. There are a lot of problems then.
L: However I believe that there is a short vision from both the parents and schools. I believe that
diversity started in the school system. You don’t have to wait until the student graduates and is
suddenly met with the challenge of being different. That’s what my personal belief [was], and I fully
agreed with the school desegregation and supported busing of students to different schools in the
district, rather than a concentration of refugee students in a couple of schools. And I was very
fortunate to get the support of first, the Dean of the Graduate School of Education from UMass Lowell.
So together we provide training to the teachers on how to work with students of different cultural
backgrounds and different English capability. So when teachers felt their job was very rewarding –
challenging, but very rewarding – then they started to feel like diversity needed to be started in the
school.
H: I think in addition to that there was such a large influx of children from the refugee community that
the school system was overwhelmed. And because of that there was a lot of resistance not only to
school, but also to refugees and immigrants that fled into Lowell, and they start a movement of antirefugee, anti-immigrants. And in fact it involved the city mayor [Dick Howe]. He had to come up and
justify why, you know, what are we going to do with all of these kids in the school? And so I recall a
time when Dick Howe I think called on us to do something. And so Lan was the one that joined him to
go to Washington to demand more support, you know? And I remember she made a couple of trips
7
�with him to HEW, what’s that, Health, Education and Welfare Department to get funding. We got a lot
of additional funds from the federal government to support the school system here.
L: In fact, you know, in the period of five years from a joint effort between the mayor of the city, the
superintendent of schools (H: Mr. Mroz) yah, Mr. Mroz, we went to Washington, DC and knocked at
the door of then Senator Kennedy and Congressman Atkins.
H: Paul Tsongas.
L: Yes, Paul Tsongas, and all together they were able to advise us how to approach in terms of applying
for funding from a pool of money for what they called the Dire Need of Refugee Resettlement, which is
a federal pool of money. And in the period of five years we were able to bring in more than two
million dollars [K: Wow] to this school system, the public school system in Lowell. So it alleviated the
school budget quite a bit, and they were able to hire ESL teachers, guidance counselors, and also to
provide some limited services to students, like free lunch, you know, for the children. So all in all I
think it’s an effort of a community, you know, together with the parents to make school for the
children from refugee families available to them and also it’s a pleasant experience.
K: You were also involved on an Affirmative Action Committee at the, I think maybe at UMass Lowell?
Do you remember?
L: I think (--) Correct, I think at UMass Lowell I was asked to join as a group of faculty to assist the
person in charge of the Affirmative Action Program, or at the time I think it was known as EEO, which is
Equal Employment Opportunity (--)
H: Equal Employment Opportunity.
L: Yes, Equal Employment Opportunity, which is a kind of a different look at Affirmative Action. It’s a
matter of wording, but I think it’s more than that, because with EEO, people feel like, well I can work
with you, but with Affirmative Action Program, it looked like, I have to accommodate you. So I think
it’s a slightly different perspective, but is very helpful you know, to get any initiative started.
K: Do you think there was a problem of discrimination against refugees when they came to Lowell, or
do you think it was more (--)
L: I think there’s a level of challenges. I wouldn’t say discrimination. I think the physical appearance of
children, or adults, from Southeast Asia is very much different from the so to say Caucasian
mainstream. The ability to communicate is also different. And people usually do not have time to
8
�understand and to be patient enough to make themselves understood. So I think it created challenges,
but I wouldn’t say discrimination.
K: So the building where the IRF was kind of held, or, was at the International Institute. Were there
any other associations that used that building?
H: Well from 1980 up until 1983 there’s only one, the Self-Help Project that has the funding to pay for
the rent and the classrooms at the International Institute of Lowell, on High Street. And the other, the
Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association, the Laos Mutual Assistance Association and the Vietnamese
one, were just beginning to perform as social, cultural groups. They used the facility under our, the
Indochinese Refugee umbrella, and we try as much as possible to facilitate the facilities for them. And
in fact we know that – because I’m fully familiar with the history, the rivalry, the hostility – to be
honest with you there’s hostility among the Vietnamese, and the Cambodian, and the Laotian back in
their own country. This is nothing new. So that as the supervisor of the Indochinese Refugee and the
Self-Help Project, I have to anticipate what’s going to happen once each group develops their own
identity. Sort of to reassemble themselves here in Lowell, to gain their own footing in Lowell, they
wanted to be independent from one another. And that is when we prepare the way, honestly at that
time as the program supervisor I don’t expect it to last any more than five years, and that’s exactly
what happened. By 1985 we want to be sure that each one of them can provide service to themselves,
and that the Indochinese would [proceed] in the background and would give up the service providing
for any one of them. Okay, so Miss Keirstead should be the one to tell you how we pulled back and
how the Laotian, the Cambodian, and Vietnamese applied, with her help, their own funding to give
direct support to each other, and that the Indochinese would no longer be there for them. And so in a
way the rental for the International Institute was paid by themselves, no longer [the IRF] by 1985.
K: So after 1985 it seems like you started serving on several advisory councils?
H: That’s correct.
K: So was that kind of the shift with your involvement?
H: That’s correct, yes. Well at that time there was a lot of opposition, a lot of anti-refugee, antiimmigrants across the states, and so it really took more advocacy in the public domain than giving
services to the new refugees. And I really think at that time, I wish I could still stay local, but the
pressure for me to get into the state level to do the advocacy become so critical and there was nobody
else who was doing that. So that’s how we sort of get moving onto that level.
K: So what were some of the things you did as part of the Education Task Force?
9
�H: In, not so much in the Education Task Force, it’s mostly in trying to create a place in the state
government to advocate for refugees. I was very fortunate that in 1982 I had the connection with a
team of four or five persons in Boston. These are volunteers. These are some of the social workers,
but they are volunteers in helping refugees, and that included Dr. Don Luce, Jim Lavelle, from the
Indochinese Psychiatry Clinic, Holly Lockwood from the South Cove Mental Health Center, Kathy Lique
from the Boston School of Social Work and me from UMass Lowell, to petition, to draft a petition, for a
kind of an advisory council to the governor. And when Mr. Dukakis was elected for the second term as
Governor of the State, in fact we go through his wife Kitty Dukakis, to ask him to take a positive role for
refugees. He established an advisory council after his election. He created the refugee advisory
council, on April of 1982. So we start off in the fall of 1981 and helped create a council for him. And
from then on it goes on to advocate for refugees across the state. In 1985 we were fortunate to have a
state senator from Lawrence/Methuen, her name is Patricia McGovern, who really, who was the Chair
of the Ways and Means Committee, you know that’s money, Ways and Means is where the funding is,
to provide several million dollars, I think it’s about twenty, twenty-seven million dollars funding for
cities that have high refugee impact and that’s known as the Gateway Program.
K: Were there any other committees that either of you served on that you’d like to talk about? Those
were just the ones that I saw in the archives.
H: So I served on the Advisory, the Governor’s Advisory Council. I was one of the co-chairs of that.
And I also served as co-chair of the Gateway City Program. It was established we had to hold hearings
to see whether the city can justify to receive the money. So we have to hold hearings in twenty plus
cities to see what they need, and to see whether the agencies, the state agencies can really provide
service to refugees in their cities or not. So we hold whatever, you know, is required as hearings
committee. And there are reports. I don’t know if we have the collection here, but the state do have
these hearing reports from the Gateway City Program.
K: So who was at the hearings?
H: There are, the states have many agencies that provide social services. Mental Health, okay,
Welfare, what is, WIC is for women.
L: For women and children prenatal and natal care.
H: Employment training, there is a Labor Department, but in the state what is it called? I forget, it’s
employment training, really placement training.
10
�L: Employment and Training.
H: The Office of Employment and Training. There are about seven or nine agencies, the state agencies
that deal with refugee trainees. That do not have any you know, in order to get the services you have
to be eligible. And in order to be eligible you have to be a legal resident. Refugees are not legal
residents. You have to remember that. So they are not eligible until the governor issued a new act
authorizing the agency to admit refugees into their services, and that is really where it opens access to
refugees to come and apply for employment training, or apply for welfare, or apply for women and
children assistances. So we really work on that state level between 1985, 1990, but I end my services
by 1989.
K: So speaking on health, were there any significant issues with refugees receiving health care or
mental health care?
L: I think that is a poorly situation. In Vietnam, or Laos, or Cambodia, mental health is not perceived as
a sickness. It’s perceived as karma. You know in your previous life you must have done something
wrong so therefore you pay for it, you know, in this life. That you [are not mentally stable], because of
something you did in the past, in the previous life. So that is one challenge from the patient
perspective of, “what’s wrong with me?” “Do I need help?” Or “This is my karma. I have to live with
it.” And from the perspective of the service provider, guidance and counseling that is appropriate for
the cultural background of the patient was not available. So therefore in dealing specifically with
mental health issues, it is not easy neither for the service provider nor for the patient. So a lot of
education has to be provided before the patient is ready to receive services, and before the medical
staff, or the counselor is ready to provide the service.
H: Well I can remember one incident or a controversy back in those days that creates a lot of issues for
both schools and parents. In the Southeast Asian community, the Laos, and Cambodian, and
Vietnamese, when you catch a cold what do you do? You don’t take aspirin or anything like that. You
have what’s known as coin rubbings. I don’t know if you’re familiar with coin rubbings. They, in order
to increase skin heat, they rub coins over your neck in the back. And when the kids come to school and
they see all these rubbing marks they say, “Abuse, abuse, child abuse,” from the parents. And so
there’s a huge controversy about what’s going on between parents and children, and it takes a lot of
explanation, a lot to the medical staff, to the school, to explain that’s not abuse of children it’s kind of a
medical treatment.
L: Remedy.
11
�H: Remedy for cold, okay. That became a controversy across the refugee community in the U.S. And
they have to have medical doctors from different, you know, perspectives come and explain and write
articles to explain that it is not really an abuse of children. And we here too, are asked to explain
what’s going on with the children, and we have to go to school and explain it to them.
L: And I think, you know, Jim Lavelle who was at the time coordinating the mental health services
providing (H: veterans) at Saint Elizabeth Hospital in (H: In Brighton) in Brighton, would have to do a
lot of education, you know, explaining to both the physician and the parents, to know how to approach
mental health assistance in a very appropriate way.
K: Were there any (--) Going back towards the schooling, were there any controversies with having
bilingual classrooms, or having classrooms set aside for refugee children?
L: There was a movement at the time across the U.S. cities and communities of English as the only
language taught in the schools.
H: Well there were leaders, community leaders, there was George Kouloheras, Lowell school
committeeman who submitted a petition to the legislators, to the state officials, to make Lowell as the
English language school, English language only in school.
L: English only in school. But I guess, you know, there is a transition period whereby students and
teachers need to communicate with each other in order for education or learning to happen. And in
that transitional period, there’s a lot of study that’s been done indicating that bilingual programs –
which means that the subject is being taught in two languages, in English and in the home language
also – would shorten the transitional period for the student into mainstream classroom. And so you
know there’re a lot of challenges that the teachers, the school district and the students are facing and
they try to work out a better way to receive education and to provide education services.
K: There was also a campaign called “Jobs for New Americans.” Do you remember exactly what that
was about, or if it was connected to the Self-Help Project?
H: It’s not connected to the Self-Help Project. How that came about I’m not familiar with.
K: Okay. What was one of the, what do you think, each of you, was your biggest challenge with
working for the IRF, or what was the biggest challenge you faced?
L: I don’t think that you know, there is a notion of the biggest or the smallest challenges that we were
facing at the time, but it is the awareness of, we need to do more work in order to make things happen
12
�either in schools, in hospitals, in the community. And when we came to terms with that challenge, you
know, everything we did was trying to smooth the way and make the challenges less challenging. So I
think we both, you know, the service providers and the service recipients, realized that, it’s just a
matter of making it work. So it’s a challenge, but there’s no big and no small one.
H: The only one of my concerns in those days when we [first] established the Indochinese Refugee
Foundation, [we] focused mostly in Boston, because that was the time when refugees came and
resettled in Boston. But by 1980 the population shifted to Lowell, the refugee population shifted in
Lowell and we had to focus so much work in Lowell that we left out Boston. And in that sense I felt
kind of sad that I could not, we could not do much more for those refugees in the Boston area. And to
that extent the members on the Refugee Foundation Board could not give us, lend us more support,
because most of them were in Boston, they were not in Lowell. However they did come every month
faithfully to the meeting, the board meeting here in Lowell in order to lend us support. We just could
not have enough resources, have enough strength to lend more work to the Boston area. But in a way
we felt that they gave us more support than anybody else that could help us to move on, to establish
the kind of services that we were able to do here in Lowell. So that, I would say that’s the only thing.
K: You spoke about how refugees ended up coming here because of the relative success of the
resettlement program here. Do you think that was the big kind of influence in why there’s such a big
(L: influx) Cambodian population now? Is that the explanation?
L: I think for, you know, that concentration of refugees from Southeast Asia into Massachusetts and
into Lowell, there were three situational factors that influenced the movement. One is the availability
of beginning low skill jobs. The number two factor is the availability of housing, low income housing.
And the number three factor is actually quite important. There are Buddhist Temples, places that are a
different religious entity that are available in support of the refugees who live, or who want to, who
were drawn to Lowell. So I think these are the three major factors that fuel, or attract the second
migration movement into Lowell.
H: These factors are very important, but I think the initial factor is, I believe, the fact that we perhaps
were the first organization that insisted on having a Cambodian, a Laotian, a Vietnamese native to do
the assistance to provide the kind of outreach, resettlement and employment training support within
the refugee communities. That really provided the sense of confidence that we understand what they
have to go through and we know what we can do to help them here. That sort of created a wave, an
appeal to those who are from elsewhere, from other clusters, to drift into Lowell. That I think, that
created the increases in population, and that also increased the support, the social support, the
cultural support, I think critically it’s the cultural, social support that brought about the Temples, that
brought about you know, the family clusters. Otherwise if you just have housing placement alone,
13
�anywhere else in the U.S. you can have that. Housing, jobs, you can go anywhere, but without that
value system, the social, the cultural values that “This is my people,” it will not attract them to come.
K: Do either of you have any other stories you’d like to share from the time, any specific experiences
with somebody?
L: Well actually I think that the interview with the information that we share with you thus far, you
know, would provide a sufficient story of resettlement, of the first wave, the second wave, the third
wave of refugees and immigrants from, you know, Cambodia, from Laos, and from Vietnam. When
you work more on the transcription, if you feel like you need some more information please feel free
to contact us.
K: Okay.
H: Well I just have a little story that I happened to experience. And that is, when we explained the
conditions of refugees in Lowell to Kitty Dukakis, she nearly cried. And she was the one that really said,
“Let me see what I can do.” In 1979 she paid her way to Cambodia, to Thailand in the border. And she
came back and hosted, adopted a Cambodian kid. I mean to me that is something that I will never
forget.
K: How do you think your time working for the IRF has influenced you?
L: I usually think that if I receive some good advice or some services from somebody then I mark on my
bucket list that I will find the opportunity to pay back. And I think the most satisfying feeling that I had
in volunteering my time for more than thirty years in the resettlement of refugees is a way, a very
small way, of paying back.
H: For me I think that it changed my life really. I came here to be a professional. Okay, I came not as a
refugee. I came as a student, went to high school in Waltham. I don’t know if you know anything
about Waltham. In those days back in the 1950s there was not a single Asian around let alone a
Vietnamese. I went to Boston College to get my degree so that I could go home and, you know, be
someone important. The feeling that I’m home-rooted here in Lowell because of that experience,
volunteer work, helping refugees, my own people and getting to know a lot of good people, really
profoundly affected my life. I cannot tell you how much, like Chet Atkins, Congressman from I think
Groton or, no, not Groton, Concord, or Kitty Dukakis, or Elise Martin and Jackie Moloney. These people
affected my life deeply. Made me feel I am rooted here. So I can tell you that really helped me more
than anybody else. Thank you.
14
�End of Interview
jw
edited by kc
15
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016. UML 4. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Description
An account of the resource
Four oral history interviews with former staff and board members of the Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc., an organization that helped resettle Southeast Asian refugees in the greater Lowell, Massachusetts area during the 1980s. Oral histories were conducted with Jacqueline (Fidler) Moloney, Carol Keirstead, Elise Martin, Hai Pho, and Lan Pho. <br /><br />View the collection finding aid for more information, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.<br /><br />The entire collection is accessible on this site.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lan Pho and Hai Pho oral history interview (edited) transcript, 2016
Description
An account of the resource
The edited transcript of an oral history with Lan Pho and Hai Pho on their experiences establishing and supporting the Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Other topics discussed include their involvement helping refugee communities after the the IRF closed.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Pho, Lan T.
Pho, Hai B.
Connerty, Kale
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Publisher
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University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-05
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UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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15 p., 21.5 x 28
Language
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English
Type
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Text
Identifier
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uml4_16.14_i002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
Subject
The topic of the resource
Community organization
English language--Study and teaching
Lowell (Mass.)
Nonprofit organizations
Occupational training
Political refugees
Refugee families
Refugee issues
Refugees--Southeast Asia
Refugees--United States
Social service
Unemployed--Services for
Oral history
2010-2019
Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association
Cambodians
Documents
Indochinese Self-Help Program
Laotians
Lowell Lingerie Company
Lowell Public Schools
Mutual Assistance Associations
Stouffer's Bedford Glen Hotel
The Acre
Vietnamese
Vietnamese Mutual Assistance Association
-
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Text
UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
CENTER FOR ASIAN AMERICAN STUDIES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
INFORMANT: CAROL KEIRSTEAD
INTERVIEWER: MEHMED ALI
KALE CONNERTY
DATE: MARCH 5, 2016
C=CAROL
A=ALI
K=KALE
A: So this is interview with Carol Keirstead. Is that how you say it, Keirstead?
C: Keirstead, yup.
A: Keirstead, on March 5, 2016. And Carol thanks very much for willing to share some
time for us.
C: Excited to do it.
A: Good, great.
K: All right. Well I’ll just ask the first question. What do you know about the
circumstances under which the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] was founded?
C: Um, what I know about its founding was Hai Ba Pho and his wife Lan Pho were
Vietnamese refugees who settled in the country, and they wanted to establish an
organization that was really, ultimately they wanted it sort of for and by the refugee
community. So it was formed at a Mutual Assistance Association, which if memory
serves me correctly was really to be governed by members of the refugee community. So,
and his, his dream which actually came to fruition was to have the refugee community
actually you know, set up their own service organizations. So that’s what I recall about
that a few years ago. [All laugh]
K: When did you start working for the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]?
1
�C: In 1982.
K: Okay. And how long were you working there?
C: Two years.
K: Okay. Where had you previously been working?
C: The year before that I was with the university. I managed a Masters ESL Program for
teachers in Lowell Public Schools. It was a federally funded project. So we trained
“mainstream” classroom teachers to be able to effectively instruct English language
learners. So I did that for a year.
K: While you (--)
A: I’m sorry. And Carol how did you get, get into this field overall?
C: So way back when Ed Moloney and I worked together for CETA, which was the, you
know, federally funded sort of Skills in Employment Service Agency. And for whatever
reason you know at the time when refugees were coming into the city I just sort of took it
upon myself to reach out and do as best I could to serve that community through that
program. And so at one point he said to me, “Carol, you know, Jackie is going to be
leaving her position and I think you’d be great for it.” And I said, “Well I, you know,
I’m not so sure about that,” you know, but anyway. So he encouraged me to apply and I
did and got the job. So.
A: And where were you working for CETA previously like geographically?
C: In Lowell.
A: In Lowell, and where in Lowell?
C: Yup, it was up on Appleton Street. You know where the court is now?
A: Oh 89 Appleton, (C: You got it) The old Post Office?
C: Yup.
A: Okay. All right, that makes sense. And go ahead Kale.
K: How did you see the services offered by the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]
change while you were there? Did you see any change? You were only there for two
years, but.
C: Right. So in terms of change the actual services didn’t change much that I recall.
Again that was a long time ago. You know what changed over time was either one, the
2
�nature of the population, or the size of the population that we were serving. I mean when
we first started refugees were being resettled at a pretty rapid rate in this city. So we
were pretty, it was a pretty busy place. Yah, so over time I think it was the nature of the
population that we were serving, not so much the services.
A: And tell us about those changes and the different people coming and going.
C: Yah, so you know it would vary. It was Vietnamese, Cambodian and Lao that we
served and it just changed over time. The Vietnamese community was much smaller that
we served ultimately just by sheer numbers, and the Cambodian community kind of
started to excel. And there were a fair number of Lao families that we served as well.
And that over time, probably even after I left, just kind of flattened and the Khmer
population just kept, you know, people just kept relocating.
A: And why do you think the Cambodian population kind of grew where the other ones
stayed maybe smaller?
C: You know I think it was just a phenomenon of having a solid sort of community who
then would reach out to family, because Lowell at the time had very good employment
situation. So we could get people jobs pretty easily.
A: Um.
C: So the word would get out and family would come and resettle. You know at the time
there were pockets all across the country for different communities. Like the Hmong
were in Minnesota. So for whatever reason communities just began to sort of invite and
encourage people to come and resettle.
A: Where were you running the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] out of when you
took over?
C: 79 High Street.
A: And tell us about that building, what was going on there.
C: Yah, so the first floor was the International Institute, and then the second floor was us,
very small office space. And then we had, there was like an annex, which was a very
large room where we could hold functions and hold classes, and stuff like that. So it was
great because the International Institute was right below us. So we could collaborate a lot
on serving people.
K: What do you think were the most essential services you offered? What was the most
important?
C: Hm. Well the obvious ones right would be employment services and language
services. We had ESL Employment and Cultural Orientation Services. So those were
3
�critical. People needed jobs, but I think overall it was the welcoming, culturally
sensitive, supportive, proactive sort of approach that we took to just you know, helping
people to resettle in a new community.
So we’d do things like you know, have big household drives to have people donate all
kinds of things, because the refugee community they just needed so much. They were in
pretty substandard housing by in large. I mean I recall at the time there were a couple of
prominent landlords and the housing was pretty substandard. So you know, that was (--)
So we did what we did and more.
A: Yah. Who were some of the landlords around town that were notable?
C: It was George [Chambros], [Chambers], [Chamberos]?
A: Chamberas?
C: Yah, was the biggie.
A: Okay. How about Mr. Saab?
C: No, he wasn’t, that I knew of he wasn’t somebody that we encountered.
A: He might have gravitated over to the commercial stuff by that point.
C: Yah probably.
A: Because I know he had a lot in the, maybe in the 60s and 70s. I wasn’t sure.
C: And I sponsored a family while I was in my role.
A: Yah?
C: And the family I sponsored was a very, a family you know, non-literate and you know
from the Province. And so I had to work over a year’s time with them to help them get
housing and get settled and all that stuff. I’ll never forget the first time we found an
apartment for them. It was a decent apartment over in Centralville. And I was helping
them unpack, and you know getting everything settled. And we had all kinds of things
donated for them. And you know it was just so remarkable to step back and understand
what the experience was like for them, right. So a hairdryer, like they were just so
fascinated with a hairdryer. They thought it was to cook meat right.
A: Oh, to cook meat?
C: Right, and then you know, we were helping them put stuff away and they were
putting all the meat in the drawers and all of the appliances in the refrigerator. I mean
just you know, they had no idea.
4
�K: Yah.
C: So it was quite the learning experience. And a lot of the work that I did was advocacy
work, particularly with the school department, because at the time they were enrolling I
think it was like fifty students a week at one point.
A: Wow.
K: Wow.
C: And you know, we were hearing, you know there was one case I’ll never forget.
There was a girl who probably had PTSD. No, I know she had PTSD, and they didn’t
know what to do with her. So they kept her home. They didn’t serve her. So a lot of the
work we did had to be sort of advocacy oriented in working with other organizations to
help them understand the population and help them do right by them.
A: Yah. What made you decide that you wanted to sponsor that one family?
C: Well my thing was to sort of walk the talk in what I do. So I just wanted to do that as
part of you know, not just get paid for the work but the refugee community would
actually step up and help out.
K: Okay. So what were all of your duties and stuff? You already talked about advocacy
work, but what else were [unclear]?
C: So I supervised the staff that we had. We had bilingual bicultural staff. I oversaw all
of the programming. Oversaw all of the paperwork with Office of Refugee Resettlement,
you know, had to oversee all of the records and stuff like that.
A: And that was a federal agency?
C: Yes. And so you know, all of the administrative things that go along with an
administrative job, which I didn’t have a clue how to do until I got this job. So it was
really learning on the job, but it was great. And I’d say, you know, a fair amount of it
was really outreach to the community and helping you know, doing cultural orientations
out in the community. Really just helping develop understanding as much as I could
about, you know, the communities that were coming into Lowell.
K: Was there anything while you were on your job that you found unexpected, like any
tasks that you had to do that you weren’t prepared for, well not prepared for but just
weren’t expecting?
C: Yah, firing staff was hard. [Laughs]
5
�A: Yah, and without going into the specific persons what was the kind of nature of the
work that made it difficult?
C: It was a staff person that was, you know, I adored him and he was well respected in
the community, but just didn’t do his job. So you know, at some point you have to
address things like that and it’s hard, particularly when you’re a white female and the
person is a member of the community. It’s very difficult. So that was my probably
biggest challenge.
A: Was there any kind of fallout with the community from that?
C: Yes, this individual actually, yes there was.
A: Okay.
K: How many people do you think you helped over there, how many families?
C: Oh Lord. You know I’m sorry. I wouldn’t even know how to, I wouldn’t know how
to do that. You probably have the record. I just don’t even (--) I know we had to report
on it every month. We had to submit monthly reports.
A: Yah. No, that’s fine.
K: We actually might have those in our archives, yah.
C: That would be interesting to see, yah.
A: Could you describe the community as they were coming into Lowell? And you
talked about the, you know, kind of issues with understanding kind of technology and
things like that, which they had never seen before.
C: Right, right. So I guess it was really recognizing that what they had to become
accustomed to and what they had to learn was going to take time. And that they just
needed a lot of support to acculturating and learning what they needed to learn, and in the
employment setting. So that was a whole other thing. So my job as director that was my
(--) We had ESL teachers, and we had cultural specialists, but my job was to find jobs for
people. That was part of my role. So you know, I had to make sure that the work place
could accommodate people who were, you know, had various levels of education and,
you know, could handle expectations in the work place and stuff like that. So that was,
that was a challenge.
A: So tell us what companies were out kind of that you connected with?
C: I remember a big one was BASF. (A: Umhm) So there were a lot of electronic firms
at that time and medical supply firms where all folks would have to do is piecework, put
stuff together. And it was a pretty good job in the tech industry. So Wang, some people
6
�could get in. Not a lot, but some people could get into Wang. But there were a couple.
BASF I remember and it will come to me after you leave. [Laughs]
A: That’s fine.
C: There are a few sort of you know, our go-tos.
A: Where was BASF? Was that in Nashua?
C: Bedford.
A: Oh Bedford, okay. Good. And do you remember any kind of stories connected with
people getting jobs and you know, perceptions on that and feelings from the community
response?
C: Can you say more about that? What are you, what are you thinking?
A: Yes. Just I mean did, um, you know, do you remember any particular stories where
you know, you got somebody a job and it really kind of changed their outlook, or their
family’s outlook?
C: I’m sure. I just can’t at the top of my head recall. You know I’m sure there were
many, but yah.
A: Yah. What was the, what’s your perception on the city’s reception of these
immigrants?
C: I would say one of the reasons we ended up with such a large community is because
by in large the city stepped up. They didn’t always do the right thing, but by in large the
city really stepped up I think. You know, a lot of the churches were heavily involved.
Eliot Church, Saint Patrick’s was a huge supporter. Yah, so churches played a big role in
really helping refugee communities. So I would say yah, Lowell was pretty, Lowell did a
pretty good job.
A: Is there any way to find like what that could be attributed to?
C: So who would have been there at the time? Gee, I can’t even tell you. George
Tsapatsaris was the Superintendent of Schools.
A: Okay. Did you guys have a relationship with the school department?
C: I did, you know, it was sometimes heated because I did go to bat for people.
A: Okay.
C: So sometimes I’d be told you know, tell that Keirstead to cease and desist. [Laughs]
7
�A: Why? Over what issues?
C: You know, I (--) This is who I am. I don’t like injustice. Where there’s injustice I do
whatever I can do. So when I saw cases where kids weren’t being served well, like a
classroom was set up in a bathroom for a group of Laotian kids. I said, “Uh huh, not
okay.” Um, that student I remember going to bat for because she had some you know,
she was dealing with some emotional trauma and they kept her home. They wouldn’t
serve her. So it was things like that. I just (--)
A: And I’m sorry, when you said they wouldn’t serve, I originally thought you meant the
family, but you were talking about the school department?
C: School department.
A: Okay, and was that Cambodian?
C: She was Lao I believe this particular girl.
A: Okay.
C: You know how certain people stand out in your mind? Yah, but you know so at the
same time George respected me and I respected him, but I had to just, you know, do that
and he had to push back. So you know.
A: Where was the, which school were the kids in the bathroom originally?
C: The Daley.
A: The Daley? Okay. [Chuckles] All right, and I imagine there was some, I mean,
growing pains from the school department’s perspective right?
C: Oh everybody was out of space and it was, I mean really they were registering like
fifty kids a week. And after I left the Indochinese Refugee Foundation I went to work.
They recruited me for the public school system. So I ran the Southeast Asian Curriculum
Program. And so you know, I then saw it on that end. Yah, I mean. And then I worked
at the, did you hear about the Moore Street School?
A: They Morey?
C: Moore Street?
A: Moore Street School up in the Grove.
C: Yah, so it was really the only segregated publically supported school that had existed
in a very long time. It was all Cambodian kids.
8
�A: Now how did that school become only Cambodians? Had it been closed previously?
C: It was a private catholic that was closed by the Diocese.
A: Okay.
C: So Lowell rented it I guess (A: Okay) and set it up to serve this huge population of
kids they didn’t have a place to put. So that was in existence. I worked there for like a
year with Bob Keegan. He was the principle. He’s since passed away, but um, yah. So
that was an interesting experiment.
A: What was that school like? How would you describe it?
C: So I thought it was wonderful. I mean I get segregation, I get it, but it was a
protected, all about these kids, giving them what they needed in environment. They
didn’t have to deal with being treated whatever. So it was a protected environment and
we could design the program just for them.
A: Um.
C: In fact, have you seen the Southeast Asian book? Probably right?
A: The Jim Higgins photo book?
C: The cover, that’s the Moore Street School.
A: Yah, I, well I just was looking at that book recently and I said, “Where the heck was
this school?” I didn’t know anything about it. (C: Yah) So when you said it I was, yah.
C: Yah, funny.
A: What else can you talk about with that school? What were the programs that you
were running that wouldn’t be found anywhere else?
C: Well it was you know, before it was a bilingual program. So back then we believed
in bilingual education in this state. We don’t anymore by the way. So it was a bilingual
program where kids had native language instruction and ESL. So we could design the
program so that they got their content, you know, in the native language and then had sort
of sheltered English class instruction too. So it was great.
A: What was the building like physically? Was it in a decent shape?
C: It was decent.
A: Okay.
9
�C: Yah, yah, it was okay.
A: No leaky roofs or anything?
C: No, no, it was okay.
A: Okay, good. Um, you talk about Lowell being basically an accommodating
community. Any instances where you remember where it didn’t shine in that area?
C: Housing I would say.
A: And what were the issues there?
C: Really substandard housing. I mean most of the families when I’d go visit, you know,
they’d be roaches all over the walls. They’d be roach paper just like wallpaper, you
know, so just really substandard housing.
A: And did the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] get involved in kind of helping to
change that situation?
C: You know I’m sure we tried. You know we tried to get families into the best housing
situations we could, but there was limited, limited stock so to speak. And you know, it
was a big, it’s a bigger issue than we could take on, because it’s really, it’s you know, it
hasn’t changed. [Laughs]
A: Yah, yah.
C: So.
A: I know there was a group around town I think primarily connected to churches, but
the Ethnic Covenant?
C: Oh my God, yah! Jay. Jay. What was his name? Great group.
A: Okay. Tell us what you know about the group.
C: Oh, [unclear] the dust off the cobwebs. Jay was the gentleman who founded it I
believe. And I remember they authored a paper called “Thirty Pieces of Silver” maybe?
Right, is that is?
A: I think that’s it, yah.
C: Um, so yah, they were a very advocacy oriented group who really I think sought to
speak the truth on behalf of vulnerable populations. Yah, yah, God thank you for
mentioning that.
10
�A: Did the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] have any connection with them?
C: Yah, yah, we, I can’t remember exactly what we did together, but we definitely
collaborated and communicated a lot. Yah, yup.
A: Tell us about the everyday work week at the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation].
C: It was, I mean the reason I stayed for two years is because I ate, breathed and slept
right, because it was just nonstop, never ending. It didn’t end at 5:00. So yah, I mean
that was primarily why I had to sort of go to a “more normal job”. It was you know,
doing the administrative stuff and then dealing with things all day long that would come
up; refugees coming in with whatever issues that they had and we would have to figure
out how to help them. So it was doing your regular job and then attending to people’s
needs as they would come through the door, which you never knew what those were
going to be.
A: Jackie told us a little bit about some of the issues that the refugees had with kind of
accessing health services. Do you have any (--)
C: Yes, yah, yes. So I would say a big issue for refugees, and I don’t know what Jackie’s
perspective was, they were very reluctant in a way to access American medical services.
And we often would have to (--) Oh, I just thought about this other case. Oh my God.
A: Yah, tell us about that case.
C: I’m just getting emotional. Sorry.
A: That’s okay. That’s okay. Sorry.
C: Wow, I didn’t expect that one. [Crying]
A: That’s okay, take a few minutes.
C: So there was this day, and in walked a woman with her daughter in her arms and her
daughter was almost lifeless. So Chulathy was her name. And so we arranged to have
her taken by ambulance to the hospital and I ended up following her for quite some time
and they could never figure out what was wrong with her. And you know part of me is
feeling like I should have done more, but whatever. And she just like languished in the
system and they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with her. She was dying and I’ll
never (--) They let her go home at some point and somewhat later I heard that she just
died in Lowell High School. She just died. So, I mean and I tried to work with the
family and it was just you know, a lot of Southeast Asians believe in spiritual even
sometimes sort of ghosts like things right. And so translating between that belief system
and western medicine is nearly impossible. And then you got the language barrier in
between. So I, you know, I worked with the family and I worked with you know, I’d go
11
�to visit Chulathy and she just always, she was always doing this. It hurt, it hurt, it hurt,
and they could never figure out what she had.
A: So she was always holding her fist to her chest?
C: Yup, like this and they never could figure out what she had. So, sorry.
A: Other issues on medical or health access?
C: There weren’t the language and cultural resources that of course there are now. So it
was really, really difficult. Yah, I didn’t even think of that. It was really difficult to get
adequate care for people because of the language barrier and the cultural barriers. Yah.
A: So talk about the language barriers in general?
C: Well I didn’t speak any of the language [laughs]. So I always had to rely on you
know, my folks to translate. And so when refugees would go do whatever they had to do
they would always have to find somebody, oftentimes the younger kid in the family, and
rely on that person as their translator which right, is not ideal. So yah, it was, it was really
tough. And that was a lot of the work that our staff had to do, which they weren’t paid to
do really. I mean their jobs were not to be translators, but there you go right.
K: Umhm.
A: Yah, yah. Any funny stories about IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]
workplace?
C: Yah, so this may not want to be (--) [Laughs] You don’t have to stop it but there were
a lot of funny things, but I’ll never forget this one time. Alise Martin, do you know Alise
Martin?
A: Yah.
C: She was the ESL teacher.
A: Oh she worked at the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]?
C: Yah.
A: Okay. That’s another interview.
K: We have her [unclear].
C: And I think she was the teacher at this time. We had a couple while I was there, but I
went down to the classroom just to check on things. And we often had people donate
goods. So we’d have plastic bags all along the side of the classroom. So I went down
12
�and looked in the classroom and there was a big ruckus going on. And I’m like
everybody is laughing and you know, I’m like what’s going on? So what happened was
somebody had donated things and there was a box on tampons in there. And the Ref,
whoever found them thought they were firecrackers. So they’re all trying to light
tampons. [All laugh] That was a fun one, yah.
A: Other kind of workplace issues at the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]?
C: You know we always could have used more. It was always a scramble to have
enough resources to do what we needed to do. And I don’t remember at the time. I
remember getting some grants here and there, some small grants to do different things,
but I can’t recall what they were.
A: Yah. Now you worked with the federal government. Did you work with any state
agencies?
C: We, I’m trying to think. Well there was the Office of Refugee Resettlement in
Massachusetts. So every state has its own.
A: Okay.
C: Yah, yah.
A: Okay. So the office you primarily dealt with was kind of, they controlled the funds
that the federal government (--)
C: Right.
A: Okay I see.
C: They were sort of a pass through.
A: Do you remember any individuals or issues with the state?
C: No. I mean like any, I’ve managed many of those things since then. Like there are
always challenges with it, but you know.
A: Yah, regular bureaucracy stuff.
C: Yah, right, right, nothing that I can recall out of the ordinary.
A: Good.
K: Did you see funding change while you were there at all?
C: I don’t remember. Really I don’t remember.
13
�K: Did working with the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] change your perspective
on anything, like such as minority groups, non-profit work?
C: It was life changing for me.
K: Really.
C: Because when I left there I went to work for the school department and then I went to
work overseas in a Refugee Program. So I never would have done that if I hadn’t had
this opportunity. And then I adopted somebody from Cambodia. So it really was life
changing for me.
K: Now where did you work overseas?
C: In the Philippines, in the Philippine Refugee Camp.
K: And was that the camp where Cambodians and other folks from Southeast Asia were
coming?
C: A lot. There were several camps in Thailand and then there was PRPC in the
Philippines, and there were a couple of smaller ones in Indonesia.
A: Okay.
C: When I went the largest population were Amerasians.
A: From mainly from Vietnam?
C: Umhm.
A: Okay. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about how you got involved in that project?
C: So when I was at the Refugee Foundation I was able to make contacts. I also worked
at Middlesex Community College in between, that’s right. So I worked at Lowell Public
Schools. Then I went to Middlesex and help set up the new campus, because what they
wanted to do in setting up the new campus with Molly Sheehy was my, person I worked
with, was to set up what they called a Resource Center, because they wanted to provide
outreach services to the Southeast Asians in setting up the new campus. So I did that for
two years. So through my work at the Foundation and through Middlesex I made
contacts with the U.S. State Department. And when I decided I wanted to try it I just
called and said, “How do you do that?” And the women said, “Well here’s what you do.”
And so I applied to this organization and they flew me down for an interview. And
within a month I was gone. So yah, it was great.
A: Good. So tell us about the camps. There was one major camp for?
14
�C: The one I worked in was one major camp, but there were many camps and operation
at that time in Thailand. So a lot of Refugees from Lowell, some would have come
through the camp I worked at, some would have come through Thailand.
A: From Khao-I-Dang
C: Yup, Phanat Nikhom, Khao-I-Dang, yup.
A: And what was the camp that you worked at in the Philippines?
C: It was called PRPC, Philippine Refugee Processing Center. Bad name! What are we,
cows? Yah, anyway. So it was a really large camp. We serviced I think at any one time
there were about 100,000 people there. It was nine kilometers long. It was along a ridge.
It was beautiful, gorgeous, and there were several international organizations there, like
World Relief. ICMC was the group I worked for. There were many, many, many. So
my group ran the, what they called the Pass Program, which was for kids 11.5 - 16 who
were coming to the states. So it was like a school to get them ready for school here. So I
ran that program.
A: And would those kids be orphans primarily?
C: They were, they were not on paper orphans. So a lot of the, you probably know this,
so a lot of the Amerasians kids that ended up coming came through very nefarious means.
So they were orphans in their country, but because people knew they were gold tickets to
get to the states. That’s what they were called. They would sort of adopt them to get to
the states.
A: Oh! So parents that had no blood, or people that had no blood connections to (--)
C: In some cases right. And in some, you know, that wasn’t all of the cases, but it was
prevalent. And in some cases you know, the families really did care about the kids. And
then we had a Khmer population while I was there. And did we have Lao? If we had
Lao it was like miniscule. So it was mostly Vietnamese and Khmer when I was there.
And the Catholic Church was there, the Mormons were there. I mean it was like a whole
community.
A: Yah. Any difficulties there between the different nationalities?
C: Sometimes, yah. Sometimes they’d be pretty nasty clashes.
A: Remember any stories or incidents?
C: Not particularly, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t often, but you know, once in a while, yup.
15
�A: Now did you, did you work with Cambodian folks (C: Yup) there? And did some of
those people end up in Lowell?
C: Yah. Like you know, if I’m talking to somebody whose, who I think could fit the age
range, if I meet somebody, I’ll ask them. “So what camp were you in?” And sometimes
it will be that one. Yah, it’s kind of cool.
A: How long did you end up staying there?
C: Two years. I do everything for two years I think. [Laughs] I like to start things up. I
did. I’ve been in my job for twenty. So yah.
A: Maybe we should go back a little bit more and talk about your transition from IRF
[Indochinese Refugee Foundation] to the School Department. How did that come about?
C: If memory serves me, which sometimes it doesn’t, I believe Ann O’Donnell
approached me.
A: Don Pearson?
C: Ann O’Donnell.
A: Oh I’m sorry, Ann O’Donnell.
C: She was the head of the bilingual program.
A: Okay.
C: For a very long time. And I believe she approached me and asked me if I’d be
interested. They had this position. I think they got federal funds for it or something.
A: It was a new position?
C: Yup, to oversee development of a Southeast Asian curriculum. So yup.
A: Tell us all about that.
C: So in my role I oversaw, I had three curriculum developers, one Lao, one Khmer, and
one Vietnamese. And so our job was to try to develop a, you know, native language
curriculum that they could use in the schools, and that was a huge lift, because you know,
we’re talking K-12. I mean it was a huge lift. So we mostly focused on literacy, and then
would you know as we could develop materials, you know, in other content areas. But
we’d produce our own books and stuff like that, yup. And I believe, and you guys would
know maybe the timeline. So there was a time when there was going to be a shift away
from the Indochinese Foundation to splitting off the groups. When you talk to Hai he’ll
know.
16
�A: Okay. So like when the CMAA [Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association] was
formed?
C: Yah!
A: Yah, so the CMAA [Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association] was formed in 84.
C: Yup.
A: And I don’t know. Was there a Lao and Vietnamese?
C: There, well there was an effort. (A: Okay) It didn’t take hold, but there was an effort
to do that, yah.
A: Okay. So the CMAA was really the only group that kind of had legs?
C: It ended up, yup, that I recall. Yup.
K: Do you keep in touch with anyone you worked with, or while working for, at the
IRF?
C: Not really keep in touch. I, you know, I would see people out in the community and
you know, a couple of families I keep in touch with that I served, but I don’t keep in
touch with staff as much. In fact it’s funny one of the families that I for whatever reason
just became really close with, a Lao family, their daughter now has children my middle
son’s age and they’re best friends.
K: Oh.
C: So she, so you know when she came to the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]
she was like yay big, and now she’s mom to two kids and so it’s yah, it’s great.
K: What about the family you sponsored?
C: I have no idea. [Unclear], I have no idea. You know my life took a, you know, a left
turn. You know, when you have kids everything, everything changes. So you know, I
became much less involved in the community. I took this job up in Portsmouth, New
Hampshire. So I became sort of much less connected here.
A: Yah. So you went from IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] to the school
department and then (--)
C: Then to Middlesex.
17
�A: And then to Middlesex. And how did you get connected up with Middlesex if you
recall?
C: Maybe Molly Sheehy?
A: Okay.
C: Yah, I think that’s probably likely.
A: Okay. And what did you do at (--) You talked a little bit about it already, but.
C: So you know, in setting up the Lowell Campus they were mindful, right that they
wanted to serve the Southeast Asian population. So we set up this um, and they had a
Gateway City’s Grant I believe to do that. So myself and a Hispanic community Leader,
Peki Wilson, who was at the time really well regarded in the Latino community (--)
A: How do you spell the first name?
C: Peki, P E K I was her nickname. Griselda was her first name.
A: Raselda?
C: Griselda.
A: Griselda. Okay.
C: She was Cuban, but very well regarded in the Hispanic community. So she and I
were sort of the two key staff at the Resource Center which operated out of Wannalancit
at the time, because we started at Wannalancit right?
A: Yah.
C: And so our job really was to provide sort of counseling so to speak to you know, kids
who were interested in maybe attending Middlesex, and while they were at the college
providing a lot of bicultural support for them. You know, doing special events with them
and just being there as a listening ear.
A: Were there a lot of students coming to Middlesex when, at the beginning essentially?
C: Well I think because of our outreach we started really to get kids you know aware of
the college and starting to come into the college.
A: How did you do the outreach? Do you recall?
18
�C: Well by that time I had, you know, because of my work at the Foundation I had a
pretty good network. So that wasn’t a huge lift. You know, without that I don’t know
what I would have done, but yah.
A: So who were some of the community leaders from the different refugee communities
at that time?
C: So the Lao I would say Kumson Silavong. I think he’s passed recently. Sommanee
Bounphasaysone, she’s actually a really good friend of mine. Who else in the Lao
community? That’s what I recall, and Sommanee worked for the DCF ultimately.
A: So many Lao folks or?
C: Sommanee is her name, sorry. [Laughs]
A: [Laughs] I’m going deaf anyways, so.
C: I know you and me both. So in the Cambodian community at the time it was Michael
Ben Ho (A: Umhm), great man.
A: Yah, he just passed away as well.
C: I know. Narin Sao. (A: Umhm) You probably know them all. I’m trying to think
who else. Those are the two that come to mind really.
A: Okay. Is Narin still around?
C: Yup.
A: Okay.
C: Yah, he lives in Chelmsford but he’s around. He’s a great guy, great guy.
A: Any politicians that stood out either kind of pro refugee, or not so pro?
C: Like if you tick check off names I could say “Oh yah, I know,” but (--)
A: One of the guys over the years, a couple of the guys that could be perceived as not
being super friendly would be Tarsy Poulios. [Both same name at same time].
C: Tarsy Poulios, right, it just all of a sudden came back to me! Yah, he was like the
Donald Trump of Lowell. So I’d say yah.
A: Do you remember any interactions with any of your jobs with him?
C: No.
19
�A: Okay. Anybody on the pro side?
C: I’m sure there were, because again we had, you know, we had a fair amount of (--)
Oh God I’m just remember on the school board, Katherine Stoklosa. She blamed me for
all of the refugees coming to the city.
A: How so?
C: At the school committee meeting.
A: Oh really?
C: Yah.
A: And so she didn’t think it was a good idea?
C: Oh no! We should stop those people from coming, yup. I mean a lot of people were
(--) It’s you know, it’s fear you know the unknown. Right, it’s so common, we don’t
learn.
A: Good.
K: Do you see any similarities in your job today with working with the IRF [Indochinese
Refugee Foundation]
C: No. I wish I did. [Laughs] No, I’m (--)
A: We won’t leave that on the record.
C: Yah! I’m pretty far removed from feeling like I have an impact on people’s lives, but
that’s okay.
K: He kind of skips this question, but what was the most interesting or enjoyable part of
your job?
C: Oh the people. Oh God yah. Just really, just delightful people, and some of them
could be like royal pains in the asses, but you know. Hai’s father worked for me, and a
wonderful, wonderful man. And he was very set in his ways. So supervising him was a
challenge, but you know, wonderful, wonderful man. And so just really wonderful
people and I learned a lot.
A: Any final thoughts about your time working for the IRF [Indochinese Refugee
Foundation]?
20
�C: No, just that you know, I want to thank Jackie’s husband. [Laughs] Really it was a
life changer for me, that opportunity, and Hai. It really was. I mean they took a risk with
me, because I was (--) How old was I? I was young, really and you know, I guess the
good thing for me was nobody had that experience because it was so new. So they took a
chance with me and it was great.
A: Yah, you said Jackie’s husband?
C: He’s the one that recommended me for the job.
A: Jackie Moloney’s husband?
C: Yup.
A: Oh, okay, and how did you know him?
C: I worked with him at CETA, the (--) Yup, Ed.
A: Yah, okay. What did he do at CETA?
C: He was one of the managers. So there was Ed and Henry Przydzial, and yah. But
yah, he just pulled me aside and said, “Hey, Jackie’s leaving this job. I think you should
go for it.” Now Jackie is brilliant. And going in trying to fill her shoes, I had to get over
that one right away. Yup, she’s brilliant.
A: How so?
C: I don’t know she just is.
A: But I mean how did you feel that you (--) Was there a learning curve from what
Jackie had done?
C: I mean I would have, if I tried to sort of emulate what she did, or be who she was I
would have failed. So I had to just find my own way in the job and yah. And I was
successful, but I’m just saying you know, yah.
A: Any final thoughts about your time working here in the city.
C: No, I mean I miss it. I loved doing that kind of work. My work is like I said, very
removed. You know, I have a federally funded job where I lead a multi-million dollar
grant, blah, blah, blah. So it’s a great job and but I loved doing community work.
Someday in my retirement.
A: Yah, why not?
C: Yah.
21
�A: Great.
K: I think that’s it, right?
C: Thank you so much.
K: Thank you.
A: Thank you.
K: Yah, this is great.
C: So are you a student at UMass?
K: Yah, I’m a student. I’m a sophomore.
C: What are you studying?
Interview ends
jw
22
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016. UML 4. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Description
An account of the resource
Four oral history interviews with former staff and board members of the Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc., an organization that helped resettle Southeast Asian refugees in the greater Lowell, Massachusetts area during the 1980s. Oral histories were conducted with Jacqueline (Fidler) Moloney, Carol Keirstead, Elise Martin, Hai Pho, and Lan Pho. <br /><br />View the collection finding aid for more information, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.<br /><br />The entire collection is accessible on this site.
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University of Massachusetts Lowell
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The collection finding aid, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.
Dublin Core
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Title
A name given to the resource
Carol Keirstead oral history interview transcript, 2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Adoption
Adoptive parents
Community organization
English language--Study and teaching
Lowell (Mass.)
Nonprofit organizations
Occupational training
Political refugees
Refugee camps
Refugee families
Refugee issues
Refugees--Southeast Asia
Refugees--United States
Social service
Unemployed--Services for
Oral history
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of an oral history with Carol Keirstead on her experiences working with Southeast Asian refugees and as an Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. staff member. Other topics discussed include her work after she left the IRF, sponsoring a family, and adopting a child from Cambodia.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Keirstead, Carol
Connerty, Kale
Ali, Mehmed
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Publisher
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University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
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2016-03-05
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UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
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22 p., 21.5 x 28
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English
Type
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Text
Identifier
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uml4_16.02_i002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
BASF Systems Corporation
Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association
Cambodians
Centralville
Daley Middle School
Documents
International Institute of New England
Laotians
Lowell Public Schools
Moore Street School
Philippine Refugee Processing Center
The Grove
Vietnamese
Wang Laboratories
-
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acd40c7986f27babb1bd31886abcd5b3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016. UML 4. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Description
An account of the resource
Four oral history interviews with former staff and board members of the Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc., an organization that helped resettle Southeast Asian refugees in the greater Lowell, Massachusetts area during the 1980s. Oral histories were conducted with Jacqueline (Fidler) Moloney, Carol Keirstead, Elise Martin, Hai Pho, and Lan Pho. <br /><br />View the collection finding aid for more information, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.<br /><br />The entire collection is accessible on this site.
Creator
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University of Massachusetts Lowell
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Carol Keirstead oral history interview audio recording, 2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Adoption
Adoptive parents
Community organization
English language--Study and teaching
Lowell (Mass.)
Nonprofit organizations
Occupational training
Political refugees
Refugee camps
Refugee families
Refugee issues
Refugees--Southeast Asia
Refugees--United States
Social service
Unemployed--Services for
Oral history
Description
An account of the resource
The audio recording of an oral history with Carol Keirstead on her experiences working with Southeast Asian refugees and as an Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. staff member. Other topics discussed include her work after she left the IRF, sponsoring a family, and adopting a child from Cambodia.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Keirstead, Carol
Connerty, Kale
Ali, Mehmed
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Publisher
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University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
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2016-03-05
Rights
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UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
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1 audio recording; 00:45:44
Language
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English
Type
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Sound
Identifier
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uml4_16.02_i001
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
BASF Systems Corporation
Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association
Cambodians
Centralville
International Institute of New England
Laotians
Lowell Public Schools
Moore Street School
Philippine Refugee Processing Center
Sound recordings
The Grove
Vietnamese
Wang Laboratories
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/37070/archive/files/ac1482c763417179051cc5b93b0535b5.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=Sw0tDRkl2aDBcKwBxhLBHdp6BdslFZXd29-m%7Ehr8GqrqM2dVsPBT6HuLiMeev-ItVmG%7EAD61cwhb0jwKeH%7EmemqwqiM9u57QubFFIYoMe-CxY9T8Hyf-AYq0UUhtkiL99ufdRw09Lt0oltqdO3lLd9RH9o-7OSP2Y50zDnZsuWCGzKKoc5UIIMfyLRBLNZb2o-nImkQi%7EALyyZ3RwEpWtkP8GE0u8%7ExptPI5aKt--brWAFfXfx8CGbI0gSOfIBoCAyxmZndULABF8IMpm4ifpet5OwshvIy2DUYZzM008eqXp19rmLZ0cF6Kckk6zK%7EAO%7EP0YFda9Qkq6cX9uGgW%7EQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016. UML 4. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Description
An account of the resource
Four oral history interviews with former staff and board members of the Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc., an organization that helped resettle Southeast Asian refugees in the greater Lowell, Massachusetts area during the 1980s. Oral histories were conducted with Jacqueline (Fidler) Moloney, Carol Keirstead, Elise Martin, Hai Pho, and Lan Pho. <br /><br />View the collection finding aid for more information, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.<br /><br />The entire collection is accessible on this site.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jacqueline Moloney oral history interview audio recording, 2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Community organization
English language--Study and teaching
Lowell (Mass.)
Nonprofit organizations
Occupational training
Political refugees
Refugee families
Refugee issues
Refugees--Southeast Asia
Refugees--United States
Social service
Unemployed--Services for
Oral history
Description
An account of the resource
The audio recording of an oral history with Jacqueline Moloney, current Chancellor of the University of Massachusetts Lowell, on her experiences as an Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. staff member during the late 1970s. Topics include programs, government policy, Southeast Asian refugees, and Lowell, Massachusetts.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Moloney, Jacqueline
Connerty, Kale
Ali, Mehmed
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Publisher
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University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-02-11
Rights
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UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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1 audio recording; 00:28:13
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Sound
Identifier
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uml4_16.01_i001
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Cambodians
Highlands
Hmong
Indochinese Self-Help Program
International Institute of New England
Laotians
Sound recordings
Vietnamese
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PDF Text
Text
UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
CENTER FOR LOWELL HISTORY
CENTER FOR ASIAN AMERICAN STUDIES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
INFORMANT: JACQUELINE MOLONEY
INTERVIEWER: MEHMED ALI
KALE CONNERTY
DATE: 2/11/2016
J=JACKIE
A=ALI
K=KALE
A: Okay. This is interview with Jacqueline Moloney on February 11, 2016. And thanks again
Jackie for being here with us.
J: It’s great to be here.
K: Okay. So I guess I’ll just start with asking you about the Foundation, The Indochinese Refuge
Foundation. Do you know how and why it was established in Lowell?
J: Yes. Actually the Founders of the Indochinese Self-Help Foundation, one of them was a
member of the faculty here. His name was Hai Pho, and his wife’s name was Lan Pho. And they
were from Vietnam. And they had family in Vietnam during the fall of Vietnam, and were
instrumental in trying to create a kind of what they called at the time, Mutual Assistance
Associations to enable refugees who were fleeing from Southeast Asia to support each other in
the U.S. So they were very involved in the Refugee Resettlement Movement and they created
that Foundation to do that work.
K: Do you know what year that was?
J: What year they founded the Foundation? I’m trying to think of when I started working for
them. So I would say, I could give you roughly the late seventies, but I don’t have the actual
date.
K: And when did you start working there?
1
�J: About 79.
K: 79? (J: Umhm) Okay.
A: So you started right at the very beginning Jackie?
J: It was pretty close to the beginning. I was their second Executive Director.
A: Okay.
J: And the first one, I don’t think she lasted that long. It was really hard work and there were a
lot of cultural differences in the way that you know, even for me when I took on that job I had
to make a lot of adjustments in the way that I thought about running a non-profit that surprised
me in my first couple of weeks there. And it quickly became a labor of love for me. And I knew,
and maybe because they had learned from the first director that they had, that it didn’t work at
all because she wanted to do things in a certain way and they knew that would not work with
this refugee population, which honestly we can talk about in a minute, surprised me. I mean
these were people who were being resettled in Lowell in very large numbers, very irresponsible
way. They were being dropped in the city. The resettlement agency who was resettling them,
it wasn’t the Indochinese Self-Help Group, but there were different resettlement agencies
across the country who were, they would be paid $500.00 a person to resettle a refugee. Now
in some places, you know, like in the Mid-West there were a lot of small towns. They would
take that money in the church say, and help a family to resettle in you know, wherever, Idaho.
So that was one model.
In a place like Lowell unfortunately there was a resettlement agency that would take many,
many families, take their money and place them in very inadequate housing with no training,
no ESL, no support services, you know, to the point where we were finding people. I would get
calls from the hospital or police and say, “We just picked up this family. They have no shoes.
They don’t speak a word of English. It’s the middle of winter. They’re walking on Merrimack
Street with no shoes on. What are you doing about that?” So we had to develop a pretty, you
know large scale, very fast-responding mobilize the community to care for this group of
refugees that were basically dumped in the city. And the city was not prepared for it. The
schools were not prepared. The hospitals were not prepared. There were no translators, no
interpreters anywhere.
And so that was, that was my first job. I rang the first round of interpreters in the city of Lowell
providing ESL classes and then where we could you know, helping families to resettle and you
know, distributing goods that we were collecting to the families themselves.
K: Those were the main services then?
J: Those were it, yah.
2
�K: So during your time there, there was the Indochinese Self-Help Project, correct?
J: Yes.
K: So was that a separate function of the IRF?
J: So the IRF was broader than just Lowell. In fact a lot of their work was in Boston. So you
know I honestly didn’t have as much to do with them. They got funding, this Indochinese
Refugees Foundation got funding to do the Self-Help Project from the Resettlement Agency.
K: So the Self-Help Project is what offered those services?
J: Yes.
K: Okay.
A: And the IRF was, the Headquarters was not based in Lowell?
J: Honestly the, I wonder if the (--) It was a Board. A lot of the members were from Boston and
they would hold their meetings where we were housed, which was the International Institute.
But they had other meetings that I didn’t always go to all their meetings Mehmed. So they
might have had some in Boston.
A: Okay.
J: So they were a broader base, more of the, I would say established, you know, well
established. They weren’t refugees. These were Southeast Asians who were well established
who created this Foundation. You know, they would hold, I remember them holding fashion
shows, fundraisers, but it was really to help build their own ethnic community until this crisis
happened. And that’s when they got funding to help intervene in the city of Lowell.
K: As Director what were your main duties with the Self-Help Project?
J: Well it was everything. The chief, cook and bottle washer. I mean there were really only I (-) There were probably six of us. And so one was to run the, set up and run the ESL Program and
to get those refugees to the point where they could actually go into the Adult Education
Program. So you think about Fred Abisi and Adult Education, which they were totally opened to
helping these refugees, but they didn’t have the resources either. They were not prepared for
people who were you know, Laotian, Cambodian whose you know first language, the alphabet
didn’t even look like ours. I mean you come into Lowell now, it’s so much more diverse and
people coming from so many different countries, Lowell was really not prepared for this
generation of refugees that came here. So we set up that first ESL class. That was a big deal.
We did work with companies trying to get job placements. And then I had this whole group of
interpreters. And their work was to go to the hospitals to you know, I mean there were battles
3
�over everything going into the schools. There are a lot of cultural issues where you know, a
woman would go into the birthing center at Lowell General, and Lowell General was not
equipped to deal with the cultural traditions of these women coming from Cambodia, or from
Laos. And the interpreters, I mean they could barely speak English you know. I remember my
first Cambodian interpreter really barely, barely could speak English. And they were the most
challenged community, because of course of the genocide that had happened. So there
weren’t a lot of educated Cambodian refugees who could even read and write.
So we had a lot of challenges to overcome. It certainly changed their way of looking, changed
my way of looking at life for sure. You know the things that you take for granted, and dealing
with people who were traumatized by the wars in their countries. You know the civil wars as
well as the Vietnam War. And so there’s a lot of suspicion that we had to overcome, a lot of
worry about an agency. It took me a long time to earn the trust and respect of those people.
And that was the biggest surprise for me to be honest. I just thought, well I’m here. I’ve got
English language for you. I can help you find a job. You know, we might have some silverware
for your kitchen. Why would you not welcome me into your home? Well trust me, they did
not. It took me a long (--) But I really worked at it. And you know things like, and of course to
add to it, at the time I was pregnant.
Well there are certain customs which were unbeknown to me. There’s a whole hierarchy in
their cultures of you know, gratefully teachers are very important in their culture, women was
not. You know that I would go literally into the family home and the women would sit behind
the men. And here I as a woman who was pregnant no less, we’re pregnant and you were just
supposed to stay home and not even go outdoors, and I’m this pregnant woman walking into
their home trying to help them. And they would, some of them would take it like she’s trying to
tell me what to do. So I had to be very careful and very respectful, and really learn the
protocol. Things like who goes out of the room first? That was my first confusing you know,
cultural episode when you know, my first meeting I would just walk out the door. And then I
realized I was really upsetting some of the elders and I learned how to gracefully bow out of the
room, or let them go first. If they were the elder you always give them the respect. If they
hand you something you take it with two hands. You don’t just take it with one. So all of these
small things to show them the respect coming from what they had come from was a big deal.
So it was everything you know. We had our first, the first death of that community. I
remember we were about six months into this, so I was in pretty good shape with the
community at that point. We had delivered a lot of food and silverware and done a lot of ESL,
and gotten jobs and intervened in a lot of emergency room people calling, saying, “You’ve got
to get someone down here. These people are all [unclear].” So we settled a lot of those kind of
things. So we had great trust at that point from the community. And we had a death, and it
was a young man I think he was probably 32, or 33. And there was a belief among the Lao
Hmong people who were more, much more tribal, but they were a whole group of people in
Laos that had been displaced because they had helped the CIA. So this was this whole group of
people who were taken from their very tribal culture, ethnic culture, and dropped in the city.
It’s very, very difficult. And this young man died and they felt it was from his home sickness.
4
�And they said that they would will themselves to death in a way, and that’s how they felt this
young man died.
Now of course here we go again. How do you bury him? They have all of these burial rituals. I
can remember bringing in the funeral directors into the International Institute and the city
health inspectors, and we had to meet and figure out how we were going to bury this young
man and respect their cultures, because it was even more traumatic that he had died this way.
And if we didn’t bury him the right way his spirit would wander forever. So that was on
everyone’s head, but there were all these city rules about you know, you have to cremate the
body first, not cremate it but what is it when you take the blood out of people? Do you know?
A: The embalming process?
J: Embalming. Yes, and when the embalming happened, that’s what it was. Oh boy trying to
resolve that! And to everyone’s credit in this city, you know, when I really learned to love this
city, because people figured it out and they made it work, and they made it right for that family.
And that fellow was buried the right way. And everybody changed everything that they were
doing to accommodate that. One small person’s life, you know I don’t think that would happen
everywhere. I know it wouldn’t. So it just, it really made me appreciate the compassion of the
people in this city and their inclination to really welcome people from diverse backgrounds, and
to try to find solutions rather than (--) I think in some cities they would have been so
overwhelmed. They would have said (--) We see it happening now and I understand it, in cities
in Europe where they’re saying stop. We can’t take any more of these refugees. You know, this
is overwhelming our community. Well this community was overwhelmed but people stepped
up. The school system stepped up. They hired teachers eventually. It took us some time, but
you know it was a challenging time.
K: You’re still working in Lowell here thirty years later. Do you think that working for the IRF
had any impact on your decision to stay involved in the Lowell Community?
J: Oh absolutely. Like I said, it was a life altering experience for me. And I was only there a
little over a year, but I never lost my tie with that community you know. It was just a
phenomenal experience. And I just described to you how it just changed my view of this city
and what the city is capable of doing, and has helped me to keep faith and focused. And having
been involved now in a lot of non-profits like Lowell General Hospital, now I’m on the board,
then I was taking people to the emergency room. Now I’m on the board. But I can tell you I
know that Lowell General Hospital really honors the diversity of people that come there, and
they’re well cared for. Lowell Community Health is there for that reason. And I just, I still see
how you know, this community embraced that community and really made it special for them.
I remember (--) Who? There was a special thing every year. It was before the Farmer’s Market
in downtown, but they would have these monthly whatever it is, some show or something
downtown Lowell, and they were so kind and reached out the Southeast Asian Community.
And these people were hurting. You know they left their countries with nothing. So culturally
like they didn’t have many of their clothes or their instruments; they didn’t even know who was
5
�the singer from there, how to find a singer, or dance, or how to do the dance. So we were kind
of coddling together the first Cambodian Dance Troupe.
K: That’s wonderful.
J: And I remember them performing in JFK Center and it was just really hard to pull that off. I
remember how hard they worked. And they’re calling their friend in Connecticut and their
friend in California. People are trying to ship stuff here. We were trying to coddle together
enough little outfits for the women to do the dance, and you know the different instruments.
And we coddled together that first group and there was such great pride in the community.
And I think for them it was also just bringing their culture here and having it back and be part of
who they were was very, very important for them. So it was nice to be a part of it.
A: Could you speak a little bit about the jobs program that the IRF had when you were there, if
you remember any details? Do you remember any?
J: I don’t. I know that we worked with a lot of companies and did entry level training. The ESL
was big, but beyond that I don’t really remember.
A: Okay.
J: Did you remember it?
A: Nope. I mean we found some of the companies in the photographs. Now I’ve forgotten. I
don’t know if you remember it.
K: Just kind of like linen work, or just working in like clothing factories, or anything like that.
There are a lot of pictures of people working.
J: Yeah, and you know, so we would arrange the transportation. And what’s funny to me is
now when I drive home I drive down Westford Street where of course a lot of the Southeast
Asians settled in the highlands. And you still see the buses, the vans going up that street and
dropping workers off at different plants. So you know, again, the plants were great. Of course
they loved these employees because they were very hard working.
K: So the building where you worked was 79 High Street, correct?
J: Yes, the International Institute.
K: What was that building like? Was it, is it still there? Is it, it changed right?
J: Well it’s still there. It got sold to a private residence. The International Institute moved. I
don’t even know where they are now. Do they even have a place in Lowell?
6
�A: Yes, because Derek Mitchell was in charge of it until recently.
J: Yes.
A: I think they’re at 144 Merrimack Street.
J: Okay.
A: But the building itself, what was?
J: It was a big old house. It was, you know, the International Institute was downstairs, but it
was perfect for us because they had a lot of space, actually classroom space. And there was an
apartment in the building, and they needed someone to take care of it. So we had our first
interpreter, the Cambodian interpreter who lived in the building. So it was great for them too.
So it was great shelter. It was a great building. There was a big beautiful opened room. And I
still remember the, on the cultural, what we had to overcome. You know, probably at this point
we were four months, it was before that death, and many of the people had not seen a monk
for a year or two and they were really desperate to see a monk. So we, they connected with
friends and somewhere in Connecticut, they had some other group in Connecticut and the
monk came. So we announced the monk. I felt like there must have been 250 people in this
room where there should have been 100 people. And the same thing happened. And then I
was standing there and now I’m eight months pregnant, and everyone in the room dropped to
the floor in honor of the monk, you know the bow and hitting the floor and prostrating
themselves. And I’m standing there and I’m thinking it’s me and the monk. I don’t know what
to do. I’m not going to drop to the floor because I’ll never get up. And you know it wasn’t my
religion. I wasn’t disrespectful to him, but I didn’t know what else to do. Nobody coached me
on that one Kale. I didn’t really know what to do. But we had a lot of moments like that, that
were so special and people were just I mean crying and so happy to have a monk among them
again. And to have their traditions back, and to be able to say their prayers, and it was very,
very nice to be a part of that. So that building really lent itself to those meetings, a special
place.
K: What were your reasons for leaving the IRF?
J: I was pregnant.
K: Yah, that’s what I figured.
J: I just mentioned that, and I was having my second daughter. You know, I never intended to
stay there. I didn’t know what I was getting myself into when I took on that job. I probably
wouldn’t have done it if I had known, because I knew they needed a longer term solution. But I
had hired a couple of people who were very involved as the teachers, and one of them in social
work is Carol Keirstead who kind of took over.
7
�K: She took over?
J: Yah. So that was great. It’s amazing the way things happen, but it’s funny they were very
concerned when I was leaving. And I was in labor and they did not want me to leave. And you
know, at this point my office would always have like fifteen, sixteen of the elder men because
they decided everything as a community. And they would sit in my office every day and they’d
you know, bring me all like ginger root. I was supposed to eat ginger root and this big (egg?).
And Alise Martin was a teacher then too. Do you know Alise?
A: Yeah Alise.
K: Umhm.
J: Yah, that worked at Middlesex and she was pregnant too. It was just unusual. And they
didn’t want me to leave. And I’m like, “I have to leave. I’m in labor. I’m going. Bye, I’m
leaving.” And I got to the hospital and I had my daughter. And the nurse came in to me the
next morning and said, “Excuse me Ms. Moloney, but you’re going to have to help us. There
are all these people out in the waiting room and they won’t leave!” [All laugh] The same elders
and their families out in the waiting room and they wanted to talk to me. They wanted to talk
to me. I just had this little (--) I’m like we don’t do that here. We’re not going to talk, but I had
to go talk to them and tell them I’m okay and I will come back. [Laughing] And you know, it
was just again, because they knew at the hospital too what had been going on because I had
been helping them with different patients that were being admitted there. So that’s why I left.
K: So over your time there it seems like it became a lot easier, they warmed up to you. What
do you think was the most important thing that you did in kind of helping build that
relationship?
J: You know I’m a big believer as you know, maybe you’ve heard about my feelings about
students is to empower people to have control over their lives. And I think that self-help
project blossomed beautifully and it was because you know, having those elders in the room
and helping them to build their own community, get their own temple, build their own dance
groups, their own churches, you know, to take care of themselves and become their own
leaders. I think that’s what it was all about. [Repeats] That’s what it was all about. And I
believe that Lowell is a testament to how you do refugee resettlement correctly, because so
many, that community is so strong here. They’re such a strong part of this community and look
at where the first Cambodian State Legislator in the country. I mean that is a lot to be proud of
for this city. And I just, so when I look around me and most of the South Asians don’t have any
idea who I am, or what happened back then, it doesn’t matter to me at all. It was an honor to
be a part of it.
A: Two more questions Jackie.
J: Sure.
8
�A: One, any stories about coworkers, colleagues, special people that were there with you
during that time?
J: Absolutely. The interpreters were amazing. They were amazing people. And you know, they
came, they were very different. We had a fellow who was a Vietnamese. He was a refugee in
some ways, but he is a very well-educated man who had a wonderful family. So he wasn’t
coming out of poverty, didn’t live in (--) He had a family to come to here. [Ja] Pho, he was Lan
and Hai, he was Lan Pho’s father.
A: Okay.
J: But he was such a gentleman. He didn’t want to have any special treatment. So when I met
him I didn’t know he was Lan’s father. He wanted me to treat him like any other interpreter,
and he wasn’t like any other interpreter. This was a very distinguished scholar, wonderful man,
so well educated, and he just wanted to be you know, acted like the other interpreters. And of
course it took us about a month, but gradually I let him know I really needed him to do more
than be just (--) I needed advice. I needed guidance. And so he was very special. And the
other interpreter [So Chet Urk] was a Cambodian interpreter. He’s the one who really could
barely speak English, had grown up as a farmer, but worked so hard to help his people. Just
didn’t sleep, didn’t sleep. Twenty-four seven these people were on the road, they were on call
and they were needed, and we needed them to do it. And their community needed them to do
it. And you know, I know, I’ve met So Chet’s son like as a student here at the University. And I
hadn’t been in touch with So Chet for twenty years. You know, and to see his son be a student
here, that’s a pretty special feeling. That’s a pretty special feeling. They were great people.
K: So do you see any similarities in your job today as Chancellor as with working with for the
IRF?
J: I do always, everything I’ve ever done in my career to me it’s about building community, and
a community that thinks about making the world a better place. So certainly in that sense yes.
I think that that job really sensitized me to what it means to help people who are in trauma,
who have been traumatized and who need really emergency, immediate, deep care. And but
the biggest part of that is that it has to be done with respect. So I feel like, you know, certainly
at the university we have students who come here who are in that situation, who need that
help. As a community I feel like my greatest pride in UMass Lowell is that we are certainly, you
know, it goes without saying we’re an excellent academic institution, right? We are excellent in
research that we do. We provide excellent academic programs. But I think what gives me the
greatest pride (--) My greatest pride is that we’re a compassionate community. We are
compassionate to each other. Students, every day, every day I hear a story of students helping
other students. That gives me great pride. Every day I hear about our staff. Somebody, you
know, their child has cancer, or they’ve gone through a divorce, or they lost a parent, or
whatever happened, people reach across and help each other here. And that is what I think
9
�makes this place so unique and so special, and so extraordinary. So you know, to the extent
that I brought some of that because of that experience, all to the good.
A: Well thank you Jackie very much.
K: That you so much.
M: That helpful I hope?
K: Yah it was.
A: Wonderful.
M: Good. Good. A special group.
Interview ends
jw
10
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016. UML 4. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Description
An account of the resource
Four oral history interviews with former staff and board members of the Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc., an organization that helped resettle Southeast Asian refugees in the greater Lowell, Massachusetts area during the 1980s. Oral histories were conducted with Jacqueline (Fidler) Moloney, Carol Keirstead, Elise Martin, Hai Pho, and Lan Pho. <br /><br />View the collection finding aid for more information, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.<br /><br />The entire collection is accessible on this site.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Jacqueline Moloney oral history interview transcript, 2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Community organization
English language--Study and teaching
Lowell (Mass.)
Nonprofit organizations
Occupational training
Political refugees
Refugee families
Refugee issues
Refugees--Southeast Asia
Refugees--United States
Social service
Unemployed--Services for
Oral history
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of an oral history with Jacqueline Moloney, current Chancellor of the University of Massachusetts Lowell, on her experiences as an Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. staff member during the late 1970s. Topics include programs, government policy, Southeast Asian refugees, and Lowell, Massachusetts.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Moloney, Jacqueline
Connerty, Kale
Ali, Mehmed
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-02-11
Rights
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UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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10 p., 21.5 x 28
Language
A language of the resource
English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
uml4_16.01_i002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
Cambodians
Documents
Highlands
Hmong
Indochinese Self-Help Program
International Institute of New England
Laotians
Vietnamese