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UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS LOWELL
CENTER FOR ASIAN AMERICAN STUDIES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
INFORMANT: CAROL KEIRSTEAD
INTERVIEWER: MEHMED ALI
KALE CONNERTY
DATE: MARCH 5, 2016
C=CAROL
A=ALI
K=KALE
A: So this is interview with Carol Keirstead. Is that how you say it, Keirstead?
C: Keirstead, yup.
A: Keirstead, on March 5, 2016. And Carol thanks very much for willing to share some
time for us.
C: Excited to do it.
A: Good, great.
K: All right. Well I’ll just ask the first question. What do you know about the
circumstances under which the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] was founded?
C: Um, what I know about its founding was Hai Ba Pho and his wife Lan Pho were
Vietnamese refugees who settled in the country, and they wanted to establish an
organization that was really, ultimately they wanted it sort of for and by the refugee
community. So it was formed at a Mutual Assistance Association, which if memory
serves me correctly was really to be governed by members of the refugee community. So,
and his, his dream which actually came to fruition was to have the refugee community
actually you know, set up their own service organizations. So that’s what I recall about
that a few years ago. [All laugh]
K: When did you start working for the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]?
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�C: In 1982.
K: Okay. And how long were you working there?
C: Two years.
K: Okay. Where had you previously been working?
C: The year before that I was with the university. I managed a Masters ESL Program for
teachers in Lowell Public Schools. It was a federally funded project. So we trained
“mainstream” classroom teachers to be able to effectively instruct English language
learners. So I did that for a year.
K: While you (--)
A: I’m sorry. And Carol how did you get, get into this field overall?
C: So way back when Ed Moloney and I worked together for CETA, which was the, you
know, federally funded sort of Skills in Employment Service Agency. And for whatever
reason you know at the time when refugees were coming into the city I just sort of took it
upon myself to reach out and do as best I could to serve that community through that
program. And so at one point he said to me, “Carol, you know, Jackie is going to be
leaving her position and I think you’d be great for it.” And I said, “Well I, you know,
I’m not so sure about that,” you know, but anyway. So he encouraged me to apply and I
did and got the job. So.
A: And where were you working for CETA previously like geographically?
C: In Lowell.
A: In Lowell, and where in Lowell?
C: Yup, it was up on Appleton Street. You know where the court is now?
A: Oh 89 Appleton, (C: You got it) The old Post Office?
C: Yup.
A: Okay. All right, that makes sense. And go ahead Kale.
K: How did you see the services offered by the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]
change while you were there? Did you see any change? You were only there for two
years, but.
C: Right. So in terms of change the actual services didn’t change much that I recall.
Again that was a long time ago. You know what changed over time was either one, the
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�nature of the population, or the size of the population that we were serving. I mean when
we first started refugees were being resettled at a pretty rapid rate in this city. So we
were pretty, it was a pretty busy place. Yah, so over time I think it was the nature of the
population that we were serving, not so much the services.
A: And tell us about those changes and the different people coming and going.
C: Yah, so you know it would vary. It was Vietnamese, Cambodian and Lao that we
served and it just changed over time. The Vietnamese community was much smaller that
we served ultimately just by sheer numbers, and the Cambodian community kind of
started to excel. And there were a fair number of Lao families that we served as well.
And that over time, probably even after I left, just kind of flattened and the Khmer
population just kept, you know, people just kept relocating.
A: And why do you think the Cambodian population kind of grew where the other ones
stayed maybe smaller?
C: You know I think it was just a phenomenon of having a solid sort of community who
then would reach out to family, because Lowell at the time had very good employment
situation. So we could get people jobs pretty easily.
A: Um.
C: So the word would get out and family would come and resettle. You know at the time
there were pockets all across the country for different communities. Like the Hmong
were in Minnesota. So for whatever reason communities just began to sort of invite and
encourage people to come and resettle.
A: Where were you running the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] out of when you
took over?
C: 79 High Street.
A: And tell us about that building, what was going on there.
C: Yah, so the first floor was the International Institute, and then the second floor was us,
very small office space. And then we had, there was like an annex, which was a very
large room where we could hold functions and hold classes, and stuff like that. So it was
great because the International Institute was right below us. So we could collaborate a lot
on serving people.
K: What do you think were the most essential services you offered? What was the most
important?
C: Hm. Well the obvious ones right would be employment services and language
services. We had ESL Employment and Cultural Orientation Services. So those were
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�critical. People needed jobs, but I think overall it was the welcoming, culturally
sensitive, supportive, proactive sort of approach that we took to just you know, helping
people to resettle in a new community.
So we’d do things like you know, have big household drives to have people donate all
kinds of things, because the refugee community they just needed so much. They were in
pretty substandard housing by in large. I mean I recall at the time there were a couple of
prominent landlords and the housing was pretty substandard. So you know, that was (--)
So we did what we did and more.
A: Yah. Who were some of the landlords around town that were notable?
C: It was George [Chambros], [Chambers], [Chamberos]?
A: Chamberas?
C: Yah, was the biggie.
A: Okay. How about Mr. Saab?
C: No, he wasn’t, that I knew of he wasn’t somebody that we encountered.
A: He might have gravitated over to the commercial stuff by that point.
C: Yah probably.
A: Because I know he had a lot in the, maybe in the 60s and 70s. I wasn’t sure.
C: And I sponsored a family while I was in my role.
A: Yah?
C: And the family I sponsored was a very, a family you know, non-literate and you know
from the Province. And so I had to work over a year’s time with them to help them get
housing and get settled and all that stuff. I’ll never forget the first time we found an
apartment for them. It was a decent apartment over in Centralville. And I was helping
them unpack, and you know getting everything settled. And we had all kinds of things
donated for them. And you know it was just so remarkable to step back and understand
what the experience was like for them, right. So a hairdryer, like they were just so
fascinated with a hairdryer. They thought it was to cook meat right.
A: Oh, to cook meat?
C: Right, and then you know, we were helping them put stuff away and they were
putting all the meat in the drawers and all of the appliances in the refrigerator. I mean
just you know, they had no idea.
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�K: Yah.
C: So it was quite the learning experience. And a lot of the work that I did was advocacy
work, particularly with the school department, because at the time they were enrolling I
think it was like fifty students a week at one point.
A: Wow.
K: Wow.
C: And you know, we were hearing, you know there was one case I’ll never forget.
There was a girl who probably had PTSD. No, I know she had PTSD, and they didn’t
know what to do with her. So they kept her home. They didn’t serve her. So a lot of the
work we did had to be sort of advocacy oriented in working with other organizations to
help them understand the population and help them do right by them.
A: Yah. What made you decide that you wanted to sponsor that one family?
C: Well my thing was to sort of walk the talk in what I do. So I just wanted to do that as
part of you know, not just get paid for the work but the refugee community would
actually step up and help out.
K: Okay. So what were all of your duties and stuff? You already talked about advocacy
work, but what else were [unclear]?
C: So I supervised the staff that we had. We had bilingual bicultural staff. I oversaw all
of the programming. Oversaw all of the paperwork with Office of Refugee Resettlement,
you know, had to oversee all of the records and stuff like that.
A: And that was a federal agency?
C: Yes. And so you know, all of the administrative things that go along with an
administrative job, which I didn’t have a clue how to do until I got this job. So it was
really learning on the job, but it was great. And I’d say, you know, a fair amount of it
was really outreach to the community and helping you know, doing cultural orientations
out in the community. Really just helping develop understanding as much as I could
about, you know, the communities that were coming into Lowell.
K: Was there anything while you were on your job that you found unexpected, like any
tasks that you had to do that you weren’t prepared for, well not prepared for but just
weren’t expecting?
C: Yah, firing staff was hard. [Laughs]
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�A: Yah, and without going into the specific persons what was the kind of nature of the
work that made it difficult?
C: It was a staff person that was, you know, I adored him and he was well respected in
the community, but just didn’t do his job. So you know, at some point you have to
address things like that and it’s hard, particularly when you’re a white female and the
person is a member of the community. It’s very difficult. So that was my probably
biggest challenge.
A: Was there any kind of fallout with the community from that?
C: Yes, this individual actually, yes there was.
A: Okay.
K: How many people do you think you helped over there, how many families?
C: Oh Lord. You know I’m sorry. I wouldn’t even know how to, I wouldn’t know how
to do that. You probably have the record. I just don’t even (--) I know we had to report
on it every month. We had to submit monthly reports.
A: Yah. No, that’s fine.
K: We actually might have those in our archives, yah.
C: That would be interesting to see, yah.
A: Could you describe the community as they were coming into Lowell? And you
talked about the, you know, kind of issues with understanding kind of technology and
things like that, which they had never seen before.
C: Right, right. So I guess it was really recognizing that what they had to become
accustomed to and what they had to learn was going to take time. And that they just
needed a lot of support to acculturating and learning what they needed to learn, and in the
employment setting. So that was a whole other thing. So my job as director that was my
(--) We had ESL teachers, and we had cultural specialists, but my job was to find jobs for
people. That was part of my role. So you know, I had to make sure that the work place
could accommodate people who were, you know, had various levels of education and,
you know, could handle expectations in the work place and stuff like that. So that was,
that was a challenge.
A: So tell us what companies were out kind of that you connected with?
C: I remember a big one was BASF. (A: Umhm) So there were a lot of electronic firms
at that time and medical supply firms where all folks would have to do is piecework, put
stuff together. And it was a pretty good job in the tech industry. So Wang, some people
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�could get in. Not a lot, but some people could get into Wang. But there were a couple.
BASF I remember and it will come to me after you leave. [Laughs]
A: That’s fine.
C: There are a few sort of you know, our go-tos.
A: Where was BASF? Was that in Nashua?
C: Bedford.
A: Oh Bedford, okay. Good. And do you remember any kind of stories connected with
people getting jobs and you know, perceptions on that and feelings from the community
response?
C: Can you say more about that? What are you, what are you thinking?
A: Yes. Just I mean did, um, you know, do you remember any particular stories where
you know, you got somebody a job and it really kind of changed their outlook, or their
family’s outlook?
C: I’m sure. I just can’t at the top of my head recall. You know I’m sure there were
many, but yah.
A: Yah. What was the, what’s your perception on the city’s reception of these
immigrants?
C: I would say one of the reasons we ended up with such a large community is because
by in large the city stepped up. They didn’t always do the right thing, but by in large the
city really stepped up I think. You know, a lot of the churches were heavily involved.
Eliot Church, Saint Patrick’s was a huge supporter. Yah, so churches played a big role in
really helping refugee communities. So I would say yah, Lowell was pretty, Lowell did a
pretty good job.
A: Is there any way to find like what that could be attributed to?
C: So who would have been there at the time? Gee, I can’t even tell you. George
Tsapatsaris was the Superintendent of Schools.
A: Okay. Did you guys have a relationship with the school department?
C: I did, you know, it was sometimes heated because I did go to bat for people.
A: Okay.
C: So sometimes I’d be told you know, tell that Keirstead to cease and desist. [Laughs]
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�A: Why? Over what issues?
C: You know, I (--) This is who I am. I don’t like injustice. Where there’s injustice I do
whatever I can do. So when I saw cases where kids weren’t being served well, like a
classroom was set up in a bathroom for a group of Laotian kids. I said, “Uh huh, not
okay.” Um, that student I remember going to bat for because she had some you know,
she was dealing with some emotional trauma and they kept her home. They wouldn’t
serve her. So it was things like that. I just (--)
A: And I’m sorry, when you said they wouldn’t serve, I originally thought you meant the
family, but you were talking about the school department?
C: School department.
A: Okay, and was that Cambodian?
C: She was Lao I believe this particular girl.
A: Okay.
C: You know how certain people stand out in your mind? Yah, but you know so at the
same time George respected me and I respected him, but I had to just, you know, do that
and he had to push back. So you know.
A: Where was the, which school were the kids in the bathroom originally?
C: The Daley.
A: The Daley? Okay. [Chuckles] All right, and I imagine there was some, I mean,
growing pains from the school department’s perspective right?
C: Oh everybody was out of space and it was, I mean really they were registering like
fifty kids a week. And after I left the Indochinese Refugee Foundation I went to work.
They recruited me for the public school system. So I ran the Southeast Asian Curriculum
Program. And so you know, I then saw it on that end. Yah, I mean. And then I worked
at the, did you hear about the Moore Street School?
A: They Morey?
C: Moore Street?
A: Moore Street School up in the Grove.
C: Yah, so it was really the only segregated publically supported school that had existed
in a very long time. It was all Cambodian kids.
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�A: Now how did that school become only Cambodians? Had it been closed previously?
C: It was a private catholic that was closed by the Diocese.
A: Okay.
C: So Lowell rented it I guess (A: Okay) and set it up to serve this huge population of
kids they didn’t have a place to put. So that was in existence. I worked there for like a
year with Bob Keegan. He was the principle. He’s since passed away, but um, yah. So
that was an interesting experiment.
A: What was that school like? How would you describe it?
C: So I thought it was wonderful. I mean I get segregation, I get it, but it was a
protected, all about these kids, giving them what they needed in environment. They
didn’t have to deal with being treated whatever. So it was a protected environment and
we could design the program just for them.
A: Um.
C: In fact, have you seen the Southeast Asian book? Probably right?
A: The Jim Higgins photo book?
C: The cover, that’s the Moore Street School.
A: Yah, I, well I just was looking at that book recently and I said, “Where the heck was
this school?” I didn’t know anything about it. (C: Yah) So when you said it I was, yah.
C: Yah, funny.
A: What else can you talk about with that school? What were the programs that you
were running that wouldn’t be found anywhere else?
C: Well it was you know, before it was a bilingual program. So back then we believed
in bilingual education in this state. We don’t anymore by the way. So it was a bilingual
program where kids had native language instruction and ESL. So we could design the
program so that they got their content, you know, in the native language and then had sort
of sheltered English class instruction too. So it was great.
A: What was the building like physically? Was it in a decent shape?
C: It was decent.
A: Okay.
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�C: Yah, yah, it was okay.
A: No leaky roofs or anything?
C: No, no, it was okay.
A: Okay, good. Um, you talk about Lowell being basically an accommodating
community. Any instances where you remember where it didn’t shine in that area?
C: Housing I would say.
A: And what were the issues there?
C: Really substandard housing. I mean most of the families when I’d go visit, you know,
they’d be roaches all over the walls. They’d be roach paper just like wallpaper, you
know, so just really substandard housing.
A: And did the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] get involved in kind of helping to
change that situation?
C: You know I’m sure we tried. You know we tried to get families into the best housing
situations we could, but there was limited, limited stock so to speak. And you know, it
was a big, it’s a bigger issue than we could take on, because it’s really, it’s you know, it
hasn’t changed. [Laughs]
A: Yah, yah.
C: So.
A: I know there was a group around town I think primarily connected to churches, but
the Ethnic Covenant?
C: Oh my God, yah! Jay. Jay. What was his name? Great group.
A: Okay. Tell us what you know about the group.
C: Oh, [unclear] the dust off the cobwebs. Jay was the gentleman who founded it I
believe. And I remember they authored a paper called “Thirty Pieces of Silver” maybe?
Right, is that is?
A: I think that’s it, yah.
C: Um, so yah, they were a very advocacy oriented group who really I think sought to
speak the truth on behalf of vulnerable populations. Yah, yah, God thank you for
mentioning that.
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�A: Did the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] have any connection with them?
C: Yah, yah, we, I can’t remember exactly what we did together, but we definitely
collaborated and communicated a lot. Yah, yup.
A: Tell us about the everyday work week at the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation].
C: It was, I mean the reason I stayed for two years is because I ate, breathed and slept
right, because it was just nonstop, never ending. It didn’t end at 5:00. So yah, I mean
that was primarily why I had to sort of go to a “more normal job”. It was you know,
doing the administrative stuff and then dealing with things all day long that would come
up; refugees coming in with whatever issues that they had and we would have to figure
out how to help them. So it was doing your regular job and then attending to people’s
needs as they would come through the door, which you never knew what those were
going to be.
A: Jackie told us a little bit about some of the issues that the refugees had with kind of
accessing health services. Do you have any (--)
C: Yes, yah, yes. So I would say a big issue for refugees, and I don’t know what Jackie’s
perspective was, they were very reluctant in a way to access American medical services.
And we often would have to (--) Oh, I just thought about this other case. Oh my God.
A: Yah, tell us about that case.
C: I’m just getting emotional. Sorry.
A: That’s okay. That’s okay. Sorry.
C: Wow, I didn’t expect that one. [Crying]
A: That’s okay, take a few minutes.
C: So there was this day, and in walked a woman with her daughter in her arms and her
daughter was almost lifeless. So Chulathy was her name. And so we arranged to have
her taken by ambulance to the hospital and I ended up following her for quite some time
and they could never figure out what was wrong with her. And you know part of me is
feeling like I should have done more, but whatever. And she just like languished in the
system and they couldn’t figure out what was wrong with her. She was dying and I’ll
never (--) They let her go home at some point and somewhat later I heard that she just
died in Lowell High School. She just died. So, I mean and I tried to work with the
family and it was just you know, a lot of Southeast Asians believe in spiritual even
sometimes sort of ghosts like things right. And so translating between that belief system
and western medicine is nearly impossible. And then you got the language barrier in
between. So I, you know, I worked with the family and I worked with you know, I’d go
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�to visit Chulathy and she just always, she was always doing this. It hurt, it hurt, it hurt,
and they could never figure out what she had.
A: So she was always holding her fist to her chest?
C: Yup, like this and they never could figure out what she had. So, sorry.
A: Other issues on medical or health access?
C: There weren’t the language and cultural resources that of course there are now. So it
was really, really difficult. Yah, I didn’t even think of that. It was really difficult to get
adequate care for people because of the language barrier and the cultural barriers. Yah.
A: So talk about the language barriers in general?
C: Well I didn’t speak any of the language [laughs]. So I always had to rely on you
know, my folks to translate. And so when refugees would go do whatever they had to do
they would always have to find somebody, oftentimes the younger kid in the family, and
rely on that person as their translator which right, is not ideal. So yah, it was, it was really
tough. And that was a lot of the work that our staff had to do, which they weren’t paid to
do really. I mean their jobs were not to be translators, but there you go right.
K: Umhm.
A: Yah, yah. Any funny stories about IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]
workplace?
C: Yah, so this may not want to be (--) [Laughs] You don’t have to stop it but there were
a lot of funny things, but I’ll never forget this one time. Alise Martin, do you know Alise
Martin?
A: Yah.
C: She was the ESL teacher.
A: Oh she worked at the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]?
C: Yah.
A: Okay. That’s another interview.
K: We have her [unclear].
C: And I think she was the teacher at this time. We had a couple while I was there, but I
went down to the classroom just to check on things. And we often had people donate
goods. So we’d have plastic bags all along the side of the classroom. So I went down
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�and looked in the classroom and there was a big ruckus going on. And I’m like
everybody is laughing and you know, I’m like what’s going on? So what happened was
somebody had donated things and there was a box on tampons in there. And the Ref,
whoever found them thought they were firecrackers. So they’re all trying to light
tampons. [All laugh] That was a fun one, yah.
A: Other kind of workplace issues at the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]?
C: You know we always could have used more. It was always a scramble to have
enough resources to do what we needed to do. And I don’t remember at the time. I
remember getting some grants here and there, some small grants to do different things,
but I can’t recall what they were.
A: Yah. Now you worked with the federal government. Did you work with any state
agencies?
C: We, I’m trying to think. Well there was the Office of Refugee Resettlement in
Massachusetts. So every state has its own.
A: Okay.
C: Yah, yah.
A: Okay. So the office you primarily dealt with was kind of, they controlled the funds
that the federal government (--)
C: Right.
A: Okay I see.
C: They were sort of a pass through.
A: Do you remember any individuals or issues with the state?
C: No. I mean like any, I’ve managed many of those things since then. Like there are
always challenges with it, but you know.
A: Yah, regular bureaucracy stuff.
C: Yah, right, right, nothing that I can recall out of the ordinary.
A: Good.
K: Did you see funding change while you were there at all?
C: I don’t remember. Really I don’t remember.
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�K: Did working with the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] change your perspective
on anything, like such as minority groups, non-profit work?
C: It was life changing for me.
K: Really.
C: Because when I left there I went to work for the school department and then I went to
work overseas in a Refugee Program. So I never would have done that if I hadn’t had
this opportunity. And then I adopted somebody from Cambodia. So it really was life
changing for me.
K: Now where did you work overseas?
C: In the Philippines, in the Philippine Refugee Camp.
K: And was that the camp where Cambodians and other folks from Southeast Asia were
coming?
C: A lot. There were several camps in Thailand and then there was PRPC in the
Philippines, and there were a couple of smaller ones in Indonesia.
A: Okay.
C: When I went the largest population were Amerasians.
A: From mainly from Vietnam?
C: Umhm.
A: Okay. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about how you got involved in that project?
C: So when I was at the Refugee Foundation I was able to make contacts. I also worked
at Middlesex Community College in between, that’s right. So I worked at Lowell Public
Schools. Then I went to Middlesex and help set up the new campus, because what they
wanted to do in setting up the new campus with Molly Sheehy was my, person I worked
with, was to set up what they called a Resource Center, because they wanted to provide
outreach services to the Southeast Asians in setting up the new campus. So I did that for
two years. So through my work at the Foundation and through Middlesex I made
contacts with the U.S. State Department. And when I decided I wanted to try it I just
called and said, “How do you do that?” And the women said, “Well here’s what you do.”
And so I applied to this organization and they flew me down for an interview. And
within a month I was gone. So yah, it was great.
A: Good. So tell us about the camps. There was one major camp for?
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�C: The one I worked in was one major camp, but there were many camps and operation
at that time in Thailand. So a lot of Refugees from Lowell, some would have come
through the camp I worked at, some would have come through Thailand.
A: From Khao-I-Dang
C: Yup, Phanat Nikhom, Khao-I-Dang, yup.
A: And what was the camp that you worked at in the Philippines?
C: It was called PRPC, Philippine Refugee Processing Center. Bad name! What are we,
cows? Yah, anyway. So it was a really large camp. We serviced I think at any one time
there were about 100,000 people there. It was nine kilometers long. It was along a ridge.
It was beautiful, gorgeous, and there were several international organizations there, like
World Relief. ICMC was the group I worked for. There were many, many, many. So
my group ran the, what they called the Pass Program, which was for kids 11.5 - 16 who
were coming to the states. So it was like a school to get them ready for school here. So I
ran that program.
A: And would those kids be orphans primarily?
C: They were, they were not on paper orphans. So a lot of the, you probably know this,
so a lot of the Amerasians kids that ended up coming came through very nefarious means.
So they were orphans in their country, but because people knew they were gold tickets to
get to the states. That’s what they were called. They would sort of adopt them to get to
the states.
A: Oh! So parents that had no blood, or people that had no blood connections to (--)
C: In some cases right. And in some, you know, that wasn’t all of the cases, but it was
prevalent. And in some cases you know, the families really did care about the kids. And
then we had a Khmer population while I was there. And did we have Lao? If we had
Lao it was like miniscule. So it was mostly Vietnamese and Khmer when I was there.
And the Catholic Church was there, the Mormons were there. I mean it was like a whole
community.
A: Yah. Any difficulties there between the different nationalities?
C: Sometimes, yah. Sometimes they’d be pretty nasty clashes.
A: Remember any stories or incidents?
C: Not particularly, but it wasn’t, it wasn’t often, but you know, once in a while, yup.
15
�A: Now did you, did you work with Cambodian folks (C: Yup) there? And did some of
those people end up in Lowell?
C: Yah. Like you know, if I’m talking to somebody whose, who I think could fit the age
range, if I meet somebody, I’ll ask them. “So what camp were you in?” And sometimes
it will be that one. Yah, it’s kind of cool.
A: How long did you end up staying there?
C: Two years. I do everything for two years I think. [Laughs] I like to start things up. I
did. I’ve been in my job for twenty. So yah.
A: Maybe we should go back a little bit more and talk about your transition from IRF
[Indochinese Refugee Foundation] to the School Department. How did that come about?
C: If memory serves me, which sometimes it doesn’t, I believe Ann O’Donnell
approached me.
A: Don Pearson?
C: Ann O’Donnell.
A: Oh I’m sorry, Ann O’Donnell.
C: She was the head of the bilingual program.
A: Okay.
C: For a very long time. And I believe she approached me and asked me if I’d be
interested. They had this position. I think they got federal funds for it or something.
A: It was a new position?
C: Yup, to oversee development of a Southeast Asian curriculum. So yup.
A: Tell us all about that.
C: So in my role I oversaw, I had three curriculum developers, one Lao, one Khmer, and
one Vietnamese. And so our job was to try to develop a, you know, native language
curriculum that they could use in the schools, and that was a huge lift, because you know,
we’re talking K-12. I mean it was a huge lift. So we mostly focused on literacy, and then
would you know as we could develop materials, you know, in other content areas. But
we’d produce our own books and stuff like that, yup. And I believe, and you guys would
know maybe the timeline. So there was a time when there was going to be a shift away
from the Indochinese Foundation to splitting off the groups. When you talk to Hai he’ll
know.
16
�A: Okay. So like when the CMAA [Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association] was
formed?
C: Yah!
A: Yah, so the CMAA [Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association] was formed in 84.
C: Yup.
A: And I don’t know. Was there a Lao and Vietnamese?
C: There, well there was an effort. (A: Okay) It didn’t take hold, but there was an effort
to do that, yah.
A: Okay. So the CMAA was really the only group that kind of had legs?
C: It ended up, yup, that I recall. Yup.
K: Do you keep in touch with anyone you worked with, or while working for, at the
IRF?
C: Not really keep in touch. I, you know, I would see people out in the community and
you know, a couple of families I keep in touch with that I served, but I don’t keep in
touch with staff as much. In fact it’s funny one of the families that I for whatever reason
just became really close with, a Lao family, their daughter now has children my middle
son’s age and they’re best friends.
K: Oh.
C: So she, so you know when she came to the IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation]
she was like yay big, and now she’s mom to two kids and so it’s yah, it’s great.
K: What about the family you sponsored?
C: I have no idea. [Unclear], I have no idea. You know my life took a, you know, a left
turn. You know, when you have kids everything, everything changes. So you know, I
became much less involved in the community. I took this job up in Portsmouth, New
Hampshire. So I became sort of much less connected here.
A: Yah. So you went from IRF [Indochinese Refugee Foundation] to the school
department and then (--)
C: Then to Middlesex.
17
�A: And then to Middlesex. And how did you get connected up with Middlesex if you
recall?
C: Maybe Molly Sheehy?
A: Okay.
C: Yah, I think that’s probably likely.
A: Okay. And what did you do at (--) You talked a little bit about it already, but.
C: So you know, in setting up the Lowell Campus they were mindful, right that they
wanted to serve the Southeast Asian population. So we set up this um, and they had a
Gateway City’s Grant I believe to do that. So myself and a Hispanic community Leader,
Peki Wilson, who was at the time really well regarded in the Latino community (--)
A: How do you spell the first name?
C: Peki, P E K I was her nickname. Griselda was her first name.
A: Raselda?
C: Griselda.
A: Griselda. Okay.
C: She was Cuban, but very well regarded in the Hispanic community. So she and I
were sort of the two key staff at the Resource Center which operated out of Wannalancit
at the time, because we started at Wannalancit right?
A: Yah.
C: And so our job really was to provide sort of counseling so to speak to you know, kids
who were interested in maybe attending Middlesex, and while they were at the college
providing a lot of bicultural support for them. You know, doing special events with them
and just being there as a listening ear.
A: Were there a lot of students coming to Middlesex when, at the beginning essentially?
C: Well I think because of our outreach we started really to get kids you know aware of
the college and starting to come into the college.
A: How did you do the outreach? Do you recall?
18
�C: Well by that time I had, you know, because of my work at the Foundation I had a
pretty good network. So that wasn’t a huge lift. You know, without that I don’t know
what I would have done, but yah.
A: So who were some of the community leaders from the different refugee communities
at that time?
C: So the Lao I would say Kumson Silavong. I think he’s passed recently. Sommanee
Bounphasaysone, she’s actually a really good friend of mine. Who else in the Lao
community? That’s what I recall, and Sommanee worked for the DCF ultimately.
A: So many Lao folks or?
C: Sommanee is her name, sorry. [Laughs]
A: [Laughs] I’m going deaf anyways, so.
C: I know you and me both. So in the Cambodian community at the time it was Michael
Ben Ho (A: Umhm), great man.
A: Yah, he just passed away as well.
C: I know. Narin Sao. (A: Umhm) You probably know them all. I’m trying to think
who else. Those are the two that come to mind really.
A: Okay. Is Narin still around?
C: Yup.
A: Okay.
C: Yah, he lives in Chelmsford but he’s around. He’s a great guy, great guy.
A: Any politicians that stood out either kind of pro refugee, or not so pro?
C: Like if you tick check off names I could say “Oh yah, I know,” but (--)
A: One of the guys over the years, a couple of the guys that could be perceived as not
being super friendly would be Tarsy Poulios. [Both same name at same time].
C: Tarsy Poulios, right, it just all of a sudden came back to me! Yah, he was like the
Donald Trump of Lowell. So I’d say yah.
A: Do you remember any interactions with any of your jobs with him?
C: No.
19
�A: Okay. Anybody on the pro side?
C: I’m sure there were, because again we had, you know, we had a fair amount of (--)
Oh God I’m just remember on the school board, Katherine Stoklosa. She blamed me for
all of the refugees coming to the city.
A: How so?
C: At the school committee meeting.
A: Oh really?
C: Yah.
A: And so she didn’t think it was a good idea?
C: Oh no! We should stop those people from coming, yup. I mean a lot of people were
(--) It’s you know, it’s fear you know the unknown. Right, it’s so common, we don’t
learn.
A: Good.
K: Do you see any similarities in your job today with working with the IRF [Indochinese
Refugee Foundation]
C: No. I wish I did. [Laughs] No, I’m (--)
A: We won’t leave that on the record.
C: Yah! I’m pretty far removed from feeling like I have an impact on people’s lives, but
that’s okay.
K: He kind of skips this question, but what was the most interesting or enjoyable part of
your job?
C: Oh the people. Oh God yah. Just really, just delightful people, and some of them
could be like royal pains in the asses, but you know. Hai’s father worked for me, and a
wonderful, wonderful man. And he was very set in his ways. So supervising him was a
challenge, but you know, wonderful, wonderful man. And so just really wonderful
people and I learned a lot.
A: Any final thoughts about your time working for the IRF [Indochinese Refugee
Foundation]?
20
�C: No, just that you know, I want to thank Jackie’s husband. [Laughs] Really it was a
life changer for me, that opportunity, and Hai. It really was. I mean they took a risk with
me, because I was (--) How old was I? I was young, really and you know, I guess the
good thing for me was nobody had that experience because it was so new. So they took a
chance with me and it was great.
A: Yah, you said Jackie’s husband?
C: He’s the one that recommended me for the job.
A: Jackie Moloney’s husband?
C: Yup.
A: Oh, okay, and how did you know him?
C: I worked with him at CETA, the (--) Yup, Ed.
A: Yah, okay. What did he do at CETA?
C: He was one of the managers. So there was Ed and Henry Przydzial, and yah. But
yah, he just pulled me aside and said, “Hey, Jackie’s leaving this job. I think you should
go for it.” Now Jackie is brilliant. And going in trying to fill her shoes, I had to get over
that one right away. Yup, she’s brilliant.
A: How so?
C: I don’t know she just is.
A: But I mean how did you feel that you (--) Was there a learning curve from what
Jackie had done?
C: I mean I would have, if I tried to sort of emulate what she did, or be who she was I
would have failed. So I had to just find my own way in the job and yah. And I was
successful, but I’m just saying you know, yah.
A: Any final thoughts about your time working here in the city.
C: No, I mean I miss it. I loved doing that kind of work. My work is like I said, very
removed. You know, I have a federally funded job where I lead a multi-million dollar
grant, blah, blah, blah. So it’s a great job and but I loved doing community work.
Someday in my retirement.
A: Yah, why not?
C: Yah.
21
�A: Great.
K: I think that’s it, right?
C: Thank you so much.
K: Thank you.
A: Thank you.
K: Yah, this is great.
C: So are you a student at UMass?
K: Yah, I’m a student. I’m a sophomore.
C: What are you studying?
Interview ends
jw
22
�
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016. UML 4. Center for Lowell History, University of Massachusetts Lowell, Lowell, MA.
Description
An account of the resource
Four oral history interviews with former staff and board members of the Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc., an organization that helped resettle Southeast Asian refugees in the greater Lowell, Massachusetts area during the 1980s. Oral histories were conducted with Jacqueline (Fidler) Moloney, Carol Keirstead, Elise Martin, Hai Pho, and Lan Pho. <br /><br />View the collection finding aid for more information, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.<br /><br />The entire collection is accessible on this site.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Relation
A related resource
The collection finding aid, <a href="https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">https://libguides.uml.edu/uml4</a>.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Carol Keirstead oral history interview transcript, 2016
Subject
The topic of the resource
Adoption
Adoptive parents
Community organization
English language--Study and teaching
Lowell (Mass.)
Nonprofit organizations
Occupational training
Political refugees
Refugee camps
Refugee families
Refugee issues
Refugees--Southeast Asia
Refugees--United States
Social service
Unemployed--Services for
Oral history
Description
An account of the resource
The transcript of an oral history with Carol Keirstead on her experiences working with Southeast Asian refugees and as an Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. staff member. Other topics discussed include her work after she left the IRF, sponsoring a family, and adopting a child from Cambodia.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Keirstead, Carol
Connerty, Kale
Ali, Mehmed
Source
A related resource from which the described resource is derived
Indochinese Refugees Foundation, Inc. Oral Histories, 2016
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
University of Massachusetts Lowell
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-03-05
Rights
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UMass Lowell Library makes this material available for private, educational, and research use. It is the responsibility of the user to secure any needed permissions from rightsholders, for uses such as commercial reproductions of copyrighted works. Contact host institution for more information.
Format
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22 p., 21.5 x 28
Language
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English
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
Text
Identifier
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uml4_16.02_i002
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Lowell, Massachusetts
2010-2019
BASF Systems Corporation
Cambodian Mutual Assistance Association
Cambodians
Centralville
Daley Middle School
Documents
International Institute of New England
Laotians
Lowell Public Schools
Moore Street School
Philippine Refugee Processing Center
The Grove
Vietnamese
Wang Laboratories